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Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:52 pm
by Mariposa13
Thanks for that advice. I think I have a screen shot of the correct part now. I still think one of my tables looks off though, not sure why. I don't seem to have that same line graph that people use in examples.

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Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:55 pm
by Mariposa13
Thanks Pugsy! I can't tell you what a relief that is to hear. I feel like I can sleep tonight without worrying/wondering. I am definitely going to read the tutorial so that I can ask more specific questions.

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:09 pm
by palerider
Mariposa13 wrote: I don't seem to have that same line graph that people use in examples.
what line graph?

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:20 pm
by Pugsy
The examples that look different are more of a zoomed in scale and what you are seeing is a zoomed way out scale.

If you go to the Events tab and click on it and then click on one of the event categories and then click on a specific event within whatever category you chose...the graphs on the right will change and zoom in so that you can see the flow rate like the examples.

At this point...you are new to therapy and there's a pretty steep learning curve with all the data available so I wouldn't worry too much about all this right now. Take your time and get used to what you are seeing and then later you can zoom in and put what you are seeing under the microscope.

If SleepyHead is reporting time over red line leak threshold we need to make a little change in SleepyHead because what SH uses to calculate the "time over threshold" statistic is based on a ResMed machine and you have a Respironics machine which reports leaks differently and what works for a threshold for a ResMed machine doesn't work well for a Respironics machine.

When you have time..open SleepyHead and in the upper left corner under "File"....click on Preferences then click on the "cpap" tab....on the right you will see the red line threshold stuff..either change the 24 L/min to something more in line with what a Respironics machine would use like 70 L/min or just remove the check mark to turn that statistic off.
Otherwise SH will tell you that you are having significant large leaks when you really aren't.
If you have a large leak it will show up on the Events graph on the top right...that's the LL that you see on the left.

For newbies I usually suggest they target the basics before getting into the microscopic stuff. It is just overwhelming enough to use the machine and understand the basics like AHI and is the leak bad or not.
I also wouldn't go changing anything right away. From this one report...you maybe could use a little more minimum pressure but I would want to see more nights of data before saying for sure.
There's a little clustering of snores, FLs and a handful of apnea events going on...maybe related to sleep position or REM sleep. At this point not bad enough to be urgent that you change anything.

Wait until you understand what you are seeing better so that if you make a change you will be doing it because you understand why and what to expect...and not just because I said so.

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:09 am
by Pugsy
I just remembered something you wrote and I wanted to clarify something.
When I said my plate was full it didn't mean that I didn't have time to help you or wouldn't take the time.
I was referring to my own efforts (or lack of) at doing what Jay is doing trying to analzye the flow rate graphs up close and zoomed in to sort out the "am I mouth breathing or not" question. Doing that level of microscopic work is not where I want to go especially with a newbie whose eyes glass over when they see the first SH report.

I tend to try to follow the K.I.S.S approach (Keep It Simple Stupid) with newbies whenever I can and save the difficult stuff for later if it is needed.

While I don't have the time or inclination to do that level of microscopic work myself....I am more than happy to do the KISS stuff and you can decide later if you want to do the microscopic work if it turns out you want to or need to do that work.

At this point with the leak rate shown above......I don't see the need to go do that extra work.

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:32 am
by avi123
The only way we can tell if a leak is a "mouth leak" is by the shape of the Leak graph.

In the following graph the inverted "U" shapes could indicate mouth leaks:

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Our CPAP systems don't include sensors for pressure and flow measurements along the air hose and mask. So all the talks about leaks are just estimates (often nonsense). Calculations of pressure drops along air hose and mask assume that every thing is in ideal condition.

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:53 am
by Pugsy
avi123 wrote:In the following graph the inverted "U" shapes could indicate mouth leaks:
Duh...thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Yeah it "could" and I think I mentioned that it "could". The sole purpose of this particular report was to document known awake time when mouth breathing was definitely known and prove that not all mouth breathing means that the entire therapy pressure is rushing out one's mouth and the therapy was totally in the toilet which it obviously wasn't.
avi123 wrote: Our CPAP systems don't include sensors for pressure and flow measurements along the air hose and mask. So all the talks about leaks are just estimates (often nonsense
Gee I wonder how the machines come up with leak data without sensors????
Maybe the sensors in the machine are sufficient...ever think of that?

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:30 am
by avi123
Possible locations of air leaks that are included in the LEAK graphs, and screwing up the calulations:

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Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:43 am
by palerider
avi123 wrote:The only way we can tell if a leak is a "mouth leak" is by the shape of the Leak graph.

In the following graph the inverted "U" shapes could indicate mouth leaks:

Image
this is classic avi stupid. there's absolutely nothing to indicate that the half hour period he is suggesting is a mouth leak, especially since the *known* mouth leaks highlighted are totally different.

Re: Data to tell if I'm breathing out of my mouth?

Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 10:45 am
by palerider
avi123 wrote:Possible locations of air leaks that are included in the LEAK graphs, and screwing up the calulations:
words, it's something avi's not good at, must post big pictures instead.
he missed the hose itself, and the mask, and face... avi, you're slacking!