CPAPtalk.com

Oh no, if you read what I said (in between the lines I suppose), you'd see I said "at least you stick in in the device and let it do whatever it does (and a weird smilie to boot). Obviously I don't actually think it does anything. Or at least I am very very skeptical. No I didn't say it did anything. Perhaps I should have put "clean" in quotes. Also my comment is full of sarcasm re: "special scary CPAP germs". Any ad (imo) which can't describe what it is actually cleaning, to me isn't worth bothering with. The idea of CPAP germs is laughable.

The pictures show you can put anything in there, you could probably put a small puppy in there, though I'd hardly recommend this. (No please, no posts re: how I am advocating putting a small puppy in there.

flightco wrote:

jonny515 wrote:I found out it does "clean" your hose, or at least you can stick in the device, and let it do whatever it does).

Your comment begs the question; you said "I found out it does "clean" your hose, or at least you can stick in the device, and let it do whatever it does" Could you please tell me how you found this out? The machine does NOTHING to clean. Did you stick some peanut butter in the hose and run a cycle (sounds crazy, but this is the VA soil test required of vendors who sell medical instrument cleaning devices to the government)? Did you have a little mucus there at the end of the night and it was gone after using your NoClean. I actually apologize for being this way but what is wrong with people? How can you say you found this out? In fairness, you said clean, or whatever it does, how is that different from I found our it cleans, or not. even if the peanut butter was gone at the end of a cycle (which it would not be), where did it go? It is a closed loop system.

Ok, I need to apologize again, I am being an ass but there is something about people saying the SoClean cleans. Even if it vaporized the peanut butter, mucus, whatever, it would still be deposited back in your device. It does not clean, do a test and see if the stuff is gone when you are done and if it was gone, where did it go?

If you touch a working plasma globe with your finger, it will leave ozone smell on your fingertip.
Nasty, acrid smell. How can anyone consider that capable of cleaning anything?
Now I wonder why I smelled my finger.

jonny515 wrote:Oh no, if you read what I said (in between the lines I suppose), you'd see I said "at least you stick in in the device and let it do whatever it does (and a weird smilie to boot). Obviously I don't actually think it does anything. Or at least I am very very skeptical. No I didn't say it did anything. Perhaps I should have put "clean" in quotes. Also my comment is full of sarcasm re: "special scary CPAP germs". Any ad (imo) which can't describe what it is actually cleaning, to me isn't worth bothering with. The idea of CPAP germs is laughable.

The pictures show you can put anything in there, you could probably put a small puppy in there, though I'd hardly recommend this. (No please, no posts re: how I am advocating putting a small puppy in there.

flightco wrote:

jonny515 wrote:I found out it does "clean" your hose, or at least you can stick in the device, and let it do whatever it does).

I don't know why picking smilies from the menu does not work, this was an embarrassed smiley

Your comment begs the question; you said "I found out it does "clean" your hose, or at least you can stick in the device, and let it do whatever it does" Could you please tell me how you found this out? The machine does NOTHING to clean. Did you stick some peanut butter in the hose and run a cycle (sounds crazy, but this is the VA soil test required of vendors who sell medical instrument cleaning devices to the government)? Did you have a little mucus there at the end of the night and it was gone after using your NoClean. I actually apologize for being this way but what is wrong with people? How can you say you found this out? In fairness, you said clean, or whatever it does, how is that different from I found our it cleans, or not. even if the peanut butter was gone at the end of a cycle (which it would not be), where did it go? It is a closed loop system.

Ok, I need to apologize again, I am being an ass but there is something about people saying the SoClean cleans. Even if it vaporized the peanut butter, mucus, whatever, it would still be deposited back in your device. It does not clean, do a test and see if the stuff is gone when you are done and if it was gone, where did it go?

posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=1069589#

Here is an interesting look at ozone cleaning...

http://www.bioee.ee.columbia.edu/course ... g_1985.pdf

While ozone can clean surfaces it is of interest that gross contamination like skin oil must first be removed with pre-cleaning in order for it to be effective. It seems that So Clean needs to incorporate a pre-wash to their device to remove the skin oils prior to their ozone application or at least advise their customers to do a manual pre-wash.

While I have no hesitation grabbing a carrot out of the ground, wiping it off and eating it, I approach masking up for sleep with great caution.

Those "CPAP Germs" are out to get me...

NOT!!!

so, here's a thing... there's databases out on the 'net with chemical interaction compatibility listings, such as:
http://partners.coleparmer.com/techinfo/chemcomp.asp
and if you go on that one, and pick "all" materials and then plug in 'ozone' for the chemical, it's a bit of a mixed bag.

not sure what headgear is made of, but thinking it might have neoprene in it isn't unreasonable, ozone attacks neoprene: effect: C=Fair -- Moderate Effect, not recommended for continuous use. Softening, loss of strength, swelling may occur.

buna n,which is a fairly common o-ring/gasket material, and *might* be in the seals between units and humidifier etc: D=Severe Effect, not recommended for ANY use.

pvc: (hoses?) B = Good -- Minor Effect, slight corrosion or discoloration.

Okie bipap wrote:This apparatus "cleans" with what it calls activated oxygen, which is ozone. If you do a search on ozone, you will find the following statement about it: "Ozone is a powerful oxidant (far more so than dioxygen) and has many industrial and consumer applications related to oxidation. This same high oxidising potential, however, causes ozone to damage mucous and respiratory tissues in animals, and also tissues in plants, above concentrations of about 100 ppb." Personally, I would not want to have anything that generates ozone in my house. I have enough breathing problems.

The machine almost certainly doesn't present an ozone hazard.

The SoClean recirculates the air and ozone in a loop and doesn't leak much into the room air. At the end of the cycle, it tries to destroy the ozone. Even if something goes wrong, it's not a big risk. You don't use the SoClean when you're hooked up to the CPAP. You probably aren't even in the room when the machine is running, and if it did leak ozone, it would be a small amount and would dissipate and break down into oxygen pretty quickly.

You shouldn't be exposed to much ozone at all.

If there were ozone in the machine, hose, and mask, it would quickly blow away when you turn the machine on, and a breath or two wouldn't hurt. You'd smell it, so if you smell ozone when you put on the mask, just turn on the machine and let it blow for a few seconds before you put on the mask.

The unit only makes ozone fairly slowly, and recirculates it through the hose, mask, and machine. Even if it was leaking its ozone out into the room it's not making it fast enough to be a big problem, especially if it's in your bedroom and you're not in the room when the machine is on its cleaning cycle.

I'm skeptical about the SoClean, but I would not worry at all about any harm to you from the ozone. It's possible the ozone will slowly damage the plastic in your mask, hose, or water tank.

Love my So-Clean. People here on this board hate it; none of them own one. This is a long standing discussion; make up your own mind but I suggest that you look for reviews elsewhere from people who actually own one, like me. I'm delighted with mine. If you live in a humid area where your hose stays moist, So-clean is just great. Just great anyway, IMO.

hey, different folks, different strokes.

hegel wrote:Love my So-Clean. People here on this board hate it; none of them own one. This is a long standing discussion; make up your own mind but I suggest that you look for reviews elsewhere from people who actually own one, like me. I'm delighted with mine. If you live in a humid area where your hose stays moist, So-clean is just great. Just great anyway, IMO.

hey, different folks, different strokes.

This review might cause a stroke, or two.

"Check with your CPAP equipment manufacturer before purchasing this machine!!! I have a ResMed CPAP machine and when I heard about the SoClean 2 I became very interested because it sounds so easy and convenient. Before taking the plunge I contacted ResMed and asked if the SoClean 2 was approved for use with my ResMed CPAP machine. They said "ResMed does NOT recommend the use of the SoClean 2 with ResMed products". I have to say I am disappointed, but if the manufacture does not recommend using SoClean 2 with their equipment, then I will not use it unless/until the SoClean 2 is tested and approved for use by ResMed. The burden is on Better Rest Solutions to obtain such approvals and endorsements. Without approval from your CPAP equipment manufacturer I believe the best course of action is "Buyer Beware!" - Amazon

Some others; http://smile.amazon.com/SoClean-Cleaner ... ewpoints=0


In view of the numerous negative reviews on Amazon.... posted by actual owners of SoCleans, I'm gonna' say....... no thanks to the deterioration-discoloration & stench. (YMMV)

chunkyfrog wrote: Now I wonder why I smelled my finger.

Best clean in the world! If it don't stank... it's ok!


Sheriff

I've been using mine for 2 years....no deterioration, discoloration and the smell diminished by 90% after about 6 months or so.....It's like Ballistol, others hate the smell while I like it.

I guess for most of us, the best thing we can say about it is it's "mostly harmless".
Of course, if you don't want to void your Resmed warranty, hang onto your towel!

Sorry to dredge up an old post, but figured I'd put my .02 in here as I saw the question about these "so clean" machines come up again:

I used to work with a restoration company... and one of our bigger investments was in an ozone +... something (I can't remember the other name) chamber. Now, this thing was rather cool - it was especially useful for delicate items damaged by smoke/soot from a fire. You put the items in, run the cycle, purge the air, and when you retrieve the items, the soot will basically fall off. That was nifty, but not its main purpose.

Its big thing was sanitizing anything biological. We used it primarily for furniture that had bed bug or other insect infestations... and it was crazy good at it. Ozone is... well, the best way I can put it is thus - if it is a carbon based life organic life form... ozone in sufficient concentrations for a sufficient duration WILL KILL IT.

A study was done on this specifically regarding bed bugs:
https://ag.purdue.edu/entm/ENTM%20493%2 ... ummary.pdf

Ozone is a wonderful sanitizing and disinfecting agent at the right concentrations. HOWEVER, it is NOT a cleaner. Cleaning vs Sanitizing vs Disinfecting are two very distinct things. Cleaning involves the removal of visible debris or other "topical dirt" from something. Sanitizing reduces the occurrence and growth of microscopic organisms. Disinfecting kills the microorganisms... ideally all of them.

Now... a "So Clean" could, in theory, use Ozone to sanitize or disinfect CPAP equipment... however, I am not sure I believe that that little machine can achieve the required concentration of O3 to do the job, then disperse it safely. For one, you are looking at using 20 kWh per kg O3 generating Ozone from regular air using Coronal Discharge... and you are looking at needing concentrations in the .1 to .5 parts per million range (when using O3 and Water as a solution) for disinfecting, with a few minutes contact time. That should ensure the elimination of bacteria, virii, algae, spores, moldd, fungi, etc.


Its disinfecting capability is measured in CT, which is a function of contact time and concentration.

http://www.ozonesolutions.com/info/ozon ... sinfection

"CT" is the product of "residual disinfectant concentration" (C) in mg/l, and the corresponding "disinfectant contact time" (T) in minutes. In other words, for ozone CT, it is the dissolved ozone concentration multiplied by the contact time. (remember that 1 mg/l = 1 PPM)

If you are using JUST O3 (no water carrier), I'm not sure what the values are in that case... I'd imagine much higher or a longer exposure time.

So... in conclusion, it IS possible to sanitize and disinfect CPAP equipment with Ozone.
According to a rep from Better Rest Solutions (who makes the So Clean)
http://www.apneaboard.com/forums/Thread ... 0#pid16000

it puts out 140ppm... how accurate that is, well, I don't have one nor do I have the equipment to test that statement.

Something to consider though - while an ozone machine would be effective in disinfecting a CPAP system... it would also risk damaging it. Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and can quickly turn plastics brittle, damage rubber seals and gaskets, and even corrode electrical components and metals (such as the pump engine in your CPAP).

Overall... while a neat idea in theory, I would NOT recommend such a machine.

Again, the shill returns.
Oh, please spare us the garbage.
Ozone is a known caustic, harmful to electronics and mucus membranes.

chunkyfrog wrote:Again, the shill returns.
Oh, please spare us the garbage.
Ozone is a known caustic, harmful to electronics and mucus membranes.

I think you might not have read to the bottom:

Kittamaru wrote:Something to consider though - while an ozone machine would be effective in disinfecting a CPAP system... it would also risk damaging it. Ozone is a powerful oxidizer and can quickly turn plastics brittle, damage rubber seals and gaskets, and even corrode electrical components and metals (such as the pump engine in your CPAP).

Overall... while a neat idea in theory, I would NOT recommend such a machine.

From what I can see in their literature, SoClean recirculates the same air over and over. Air goes into the water tank through the hose, through the mask, back into the SoClean machine. Even if it generates ozone slowly, it should build up over time. There is probably less than 1 cubic foot of air in the system. There's probably a little bit of leakage back through the blower unit, but that's probably a small thing.

i.e. I think such a machine can easily generate all the ozone they would want.

Whether they have found a good level of O3 that kills germs but doesn't damage plastic or cause other problems is another question.

As for mucous membranes, the unit supposedly destroys the ozone at the end of the cycle. Even if it didn't, it doesn't generate ozone while you use the machine, so it wouldn't be a problem anyway. After a few seconds of the blower unit running, you're breathing all fresh air anyway. If you're concerned, turn the unit on and let it run a few seconds before masking up. Probably not a bad idea anyway.