CPAPtalk.com

hornplayer wrote:I am not a doctor, dme, or cpap company employee - however I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Give Resmed a break. This company has spent millions developing the products we use every day so we can get a decent night's sleep. I can't hate them for that.

If they want to change their distribution strategy, that's their business.

Yes, it IS their business.....and if there's any consequences, then they can take THEM, too.

Hey!.....I've got a ResMed mask, too.....and I LOVE it. That's what pains me about what they MAY do. (or at least have threatened to do)

Just as an example to the "consequences" thing, the story out today is that Ford Motor Company is going to lay off people and cut back production. This is what THEIR consequences are for making gas-guzzling vehicles for the last 30 - 40 years when there was clearly a need for more fuel-efficient vehicles. I also own some Ford vehicles.....but I don't applaud their stupidity for so many years. Is it "FAIR" that because of the bad decisions made by their management that the workers get laid off? HELL NO!
Is somebody going to "hate" them for that?......more than likely!

Den

Why do masks that are just a bunch of PLASTIC cost over $100.00?

Isn't that fact in and of itself REDICULOUS?

What would they cost if China manufactured them and Wal-Mart sold them?

Health Care products don't have to cost alot--they cost alot for one simple reason--GREED!

Give Resmed a break. This company has spent millions developing the products we use every day so we can get a decent night's sleep. I can't hate them for that.

I really appreciate them spending millions of dollars on research so we can get a decent nights sleep. I am sure they do it for our well being and not for the profit. (How do companies survive spending so much on research and development with no return and losses to help consumer?) Now, after all the millions spent and lost on our well being, they are just trying to recover some of their cost on our behalf. A company that has only the consumer in mind really needs a break from this objective forum. I wonder what their profit margins has been the last several years? Those $100 plastic masks must cost them a fortune to research, develop and produce in China. Resmed is a good company but in reality, they only have their shareholders in mind. They could care less about the consumer. It is a proven fact that if you don't produce a usable product people will not buy it. Thus, they are required to produce good, usable products. All companies have to invest in development and it is included in the sales price. No one can sell products at cost, loss or minimal profit and survive. Now it is also obvious it has already been included in the price to Internet providers too and they have a large profit margin already. Henceforth and furthermore, it is just another price gouge to increase prices by 60%. (I know, the DME's have been charging that all along and have been gouging with high profits the whole time.)
The Internet is a huge threat to DME's large money making machine but my opinion is it is not going to go away but only grow. People are becoming more informed through the Internet and they are the consumers and reality shows they can help regulate pricing by not buying overpriced items.

Article: ResMed's good news is rejected. Article ends with Gallahue of Res Med's quote, "The race has only just begun."

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/busi ... esmed.html

Wulfman wrote:

hornplayer wrote:I am not a doctor, dme, or cpap company employee - however I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

Give Resmed a break. This company has spent millions developing the products we use every day so we can get a decent night's sleep. I can't hate them for that.

If they want to change their distribution strategy, that's their business.

Yes, it IS their business.....and if there's any consequences, then they can take THEM, too.

Hey!.....I've got a ResMed mask, too.....and I LOVE it. That's what pains me about what they MAY do. (or at least have threatened to do)

Just as an example to the "consequences" thing, the story out today is that Ford Motor Company is going to lay off people and cut back production. This is what THEIR consequences are for making gas-guzzling vehicles for the last 30 - 40 years when there was clearly a need for more fuel-efficient vehicles. I also own some Ford vehicles.....but I don't applaud their stupidity for so many years. Is it "FAIR" that because of the bad decisions made by their management that the workers get laid off? HELL NO!
Is somebody going to "hate" them for that?......more than likely!

Den

I agree that ResMed is free to do what they choose, but as Den points out, they will be required to live by the consequences of what they choose. My problem with ResMeds decision is that their stated rationale for making it is based on a perception that the majority of us actual users here on the forum know to be false. What influences in the marketplace have caused ResMeds perceptions to be so wrong? Or is this false truth they use as justification just a convenient truth that they know to be false but choose to suggest as fact to make their argument?

I'd love to get the "TRUE" answer to those questions from the horses mouth.

I'd love to get the "TRUE" answer to those questions from the horses mouth.

Not much hope there. I've sent several E-mails inquiring about the increase with no response from them. They just ignore those questions. Guess there is no good suitable answer.

We have to remember that we are only witness to a very tiny fraction of the marketplace. I would argue that in fact the majority of the dme companies do provide exactly the level of service ResMed is stating that they do. In my extremely limited experience with them I have found companies willing to go far above and beyond anything I expected. Remember there are I'm sure thousands of dme companies all across the fruited plain. We have experiences posted here with maybe 100-200 companies tops? Quite possibly much less than that. I've gone through and looked and the majority of the complaints posted here seem to revolve around either Apria or Lincare. That's 2 companies. Toss in the few dozen others I've seen posted and we are still talking less than 50.
Look through a set of yellow pages on the internet. Choose any city you like and you will find anywhere from 5-30 different companies listed under home medical equipment. That easily adds up to thousands.
Maybe I am naive, I don't know. I just don't think ResMed is out to get anyone or trying to screw someone. I think thier research shows the average company provides services beyond what the average internet retailer does. And that they believe that putting the traditional dme company on an equal footing with the internet business is in the patients best interest.
Further, toss in the fact that them setting someone elses minimum price gets them zero extra dollars, that it's only putting themselves out there for abuse, and yeah - I think they do believe there is a good reason to do so.
I mean hell, if they aren't getting any extra money for it, only extra grief, they must think they are doing something right.

Guest,

Please try to explain their rationale to this aspect of raising the minimum prices:

If the Internet suppliers SUPPOSEDLY have less overhead and costs associated with the distributon and support of these products......how does raising the prices at which they sell them "help" the B&M DMEs? In my opinion, it would only add higher profits to the Internet sellers.....which would make the B&M DMEs even madder at them (both ResMed and the Internet sellers).
There's no guarantee that people would then flock to the local DMEs. For one thing, even if the prices were the same, when you factor in the cost of traveling to the local DMEs (time & fuel costs), ordering one from an Internet seller would still be less expensive as it would be delivered right to your home. As has been reported, lots of DMEs don't seem to carry many of these masks in stock and still have to order them, which adds more time to the customers getting what they want.....and maybe another trip back to the DME. Also, some DMEs apparently require a prescription for the sale of the mask.....Internet sellers do not.

Also, how do we know that the local DMEs don't in fact order a lot of their products from Internet sellers already?

Don't forget the other forums who have posters complaining about the DMEs......when you calculate your numbers.

If they think they're doing something "right", I'm at a loss to be able to figure out wha the heck it is......

I guess time will tell.

Den

Guest wrote:We have to remember that we are only witness to a very tiny fraction of the marketplace. I would argue that in fact the majority of the dme companies do provide exactly the level of service ResMed is stating that they do.... Choose any city you like and you will find anywhere from 5-30 different companies listed under home medical equipment...

Guest,

When I was first diagnosed, before I knew anything about cpap.com or this forum I contacted every DME in southern Wisconsin. Their poor service and astronomical pricing was what drove me to see if there was an alternative on the internet. I never expected to find anything as good as what is offered by cpap.com and this forum. I am convinced that what is generally reported here is an acurrate representation of what's out there. We do get accounts of some very good DMEs(I know of one that is about an hour and a half drive from me). As you know though, the far majority of experiences are less than desirable.

I'm still yet to see the long list of services Resmed says the DME's provide over the Interent providers that is worth several thousand dollars more in cost for Bipap machines alone. Hopefully Guest or some of his other guest friends will list the 100 or more reasons why they should charge more. I haven't found the one that is open 24 hours a day yet besides the ones on the Internet. Waiting to review the benefits of DME's.

The best way to get them to change their policies is to trash them on this and every sleep forum in existence--they might make sale #1--they won't be able to make sale #2.

The only way to fight hard nosed power is with hard nosed consumer information to every possible customer at this and other sleep forums!

Artwood - I bet you'd eat your words in a hurry if Resmed developed a product that further improved the quality of your sleep. We'd all be lined up to buy it from whoever sold it. I could care less if Resmed is in it for the money - I just want their products to continue to get better.

The members of this forum mostly don't need DMEs. But, the vast majority of people do. Have you ever been to an OSA Support Group at a local Sleep Center? I've been to several. Most people in attendence don't have the time, the resources or the desire to become CPAP experts like many on this forum. The DMEs at these meetings seemed like caring people who took an interest in helping these poor CPAP users out.

[quote="hornplayer"]Artwood - I bet you'd eat your words in a hurry if Resmed developed a product that further improved the quality of your sleep. We'd all be lined up to buy it from whoever sold it. I could care less if Resmed is in it for the money - I just want their products to continue to get better.

The members of this forum mostly don't need DMEs. But, the vast majority of people do. Have you ever been to an OSA Support Group at a local Sleep Center? I've been to several. Most people in attendence don't have the time, the resources or the desire to become CPAP experts like many on this forum. The DMEs at these meetings seemed like caring people who took an interest in helping these poor CPAP users out.

Guest - If you will post your name and location, I'll be be glad to find an OSA Support Group for you. There is probably one within an hour's drive from where you live. Most of the people I've seen at these meetings seem genuinely vexed by CPAP. Many of them are older and less likely to use the net as a tool for understanding how all this stuff works. There are DMEs attending these meetings who are happy to help them out. If this is the channel through which Resmed has decided to sell their products, I can't find fault with it.

Hmmmmm......Let's see.....

Facts:
The majority of CPAP equipment is sold through brick & mortar DME suppliers.

According to studies, a large percentage of CPAP users are non-compliant.

My conclusions:
A large percentage of brick & mortar DMEs are the source of the problem (and not the solution) to CPAP therapy being successful.

Facts:
Most OSA Support Groups (like AWAKE) are few and far between.
It takes time and money to travel to these places.

Fact:
Most people have computers and access to the Internet.

Conclusions:
More CPAP users need to find their way to the online forums to be more compliant......because they're already using the Internet and they can spend more time learning about their therapy than they would ever get at group meetings.
They would get to hear from a larger number of people with the same conditions. (How many employees of DME shops actually suffer from OSA/CSA?)

Anybody else agree?

Den