CPAPtalk.com

Susie Kay wrote:

Too tall wrote:Will this stuff ever end!

I don't think so.

But I do believe we should be careful about the information we post. There are casual and new readers without much knowledge who can get scared of certain things.

wise words.

Susie Kay wrote:

Too tall wrote:Will this stuff ever end!

I don't think so.

But I do believe we should be careful about the information we post. There are casual and new readers without much knowledge who can get scared of certain things.

Yes, and that included people hiding behind a keyboard throwing personal remarks. Nasty remarks also scare people away.

Too tall wrote:

Susie Kay wrote:

Too tall wrote:Will this stuff ever end!

I don't think so.

But I do believe we should be careful about the information we post. There are casual and new readers without much knowledge who can get scared of certain things.

Yes, and that included people hiding behind a keyboard throwing personal remarks. Nasty remarks also scare people away.

is it better to have them 'scared away' by a comment, or have them scared away by misinformation?

are there really people who read a remark made to someone else, then slam their notebook closed and sit quivering in the corner? I'd like to hope not.

however, the chance of someone making poor, and possibly costly decisions because they've been fed bad information by someone presenting their own opinions as fact... I believe that's a more real concern.

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:

Susie Kay wrote:

Too tall wrote:Will this stuff ever end!

I don't think so.

But I do believe we should be careful about the information we post. There are casual and new readers without much knowledge who can get scared of certain things.

Yes, and that included people hiding behind a keyboard throwing personal remarks. Nasty remarks also scare people away.

is it better to have them 'scared away' by a comment, or have them scared away by misinformation?

are there really people who read a remark made to someone else, then slam their notebook closed and sit quivering in the corner? I'd like to hope not.

however, the chance of someone making poor, and possibly costly decisions because they've been fed bad information by someone presenting their own opinions as fact... I believe that's a more real concern.

Paleride, I would think most people who participate in these forums realize that they are getting opinions, not fact (even if it is presented as ). Just because we have difference of opinions, (and that's all these forums contain) we don't need to get nasty about it. Kind of immature.

Too tall wrote:Kind of immature.

did you miss where I apologized for my response after misinterpreting your comments about my grandfather? or does it not matter to you?

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:Kind of immature.

did you miss where I apologized for my response after misinterpreting your comments about my grandfather? or does it not matter to you?

No, and I respect you for that. thank you. I should have said that earlier. I hope you realize I'm talking in generalities and not about you. I really try hard not to get sucked into an argument. From my experience, that always ends badly. Who the hell brought up Craig's list anyway! Ha.

Some "opinions" aren't harmful but some "opinions" are potentially harmful if someone reads them and thinks that someone's opinions are the gospel and written in stone.
I think that we have to be especially careful here with our "opinions" because not everyone who visits this type of forum will automatically assume that what we say is just our "opinion" and should be taken with a grain of salt. Sleep apnea people are often not thinking clearly and easily misled by incorrect information.

There are no federal laws prohibiting an individual (private party) from buying/selling/using cpap/apap/bilevel machines.
That needs to go in the same trash can as what I was told by the sleep tech doing my titration sleep study when he said it was "against a federal law for patients to use/have the software to see the data from these machines". He was an idiot.

Now these masks and machines do come with a RX required sticker but who in their right mind would want to spend the money on this stuff if they didn't need it?
There are no state or federal laws making it illegal for us as private parties or patients from buying or selling this equipment. There are some restrictions that apply to medical suppliers selling this stuff but none that apply to us the end user.
There is also no state or federal law making it illegal for the patient to change settings on their machines...even the ultra secret pressure settings.

So any newbies to this therapy that hear "it's a federal/state law blah blah blah"...ask for proof in writing and documented source because that is totally incorrect information.

Too tall wrote:

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:Kind of immature.

did you miss where I apologized for my response after misinterpreting your comments about my grandfather? or does it not matter to you?

No, and I respect you for that. thank you. I should have said that earlier. I hope you realize I'm talking in generalities and not about you.

*holds out hand* friends?

Pugsy wrote:Some "opinions" aren't harmful but some "opinions" are potentially harmful if someone reads them and thinks that someone's opinions are the gospel and written in stone.
I think that we have to be especially careful here with our "opinions" because not everyone who visits this type of forum will automatically assume that what we say is just our "opinion" and should be taken with a grain of salt. Sleep apnea people are often not thinking clearly and easily misled by incorrect information.

There are no federal laws prohibiting an individual (private party) from buying/selling/using cpap/apap/bilevel machines.
That needs to go in the same trash can as what I was told by the sleep tech doing my titration sleep study when he said it was "against a federal law for patients to use/have the software to see the data from these machines". He was an idiot.

Now these masks and machines do come with a RX required sticker but who in their right mind would want to spend the money on this stuff if they didn't need it?
There are no state or federal laws making it illegal for us as private parties or patients from buying or selling this equipment. There are some restrictions that apply to medical suppliers selling this stuff but none that apply to us the end user.
There is also no state or federal law making it illegal for the patient to change settings on their machines...even the ultra secret pressure settings.

So any newbies to this therapy that hear "it's a federal/state law blah blah blah"...ask for proof in writing and documented source because that is totally incorrect information.

You say this as fact but there are numerous medical websites that say otherwise. You may be right? I think the FDA regulates these things and I'm not going to search the federal register for Craig's list, ha. I really think this conversation got off track when Craig's list was mentioned and we started talking about the legality issue. I don't think the CPAP police is out there waiting for you to buy an illegal CPAP. It's really a mute point, isn't it, because I don't think prudent advise would be to tell a newbie (I consider myself one but I can still think) to go get your stuff on Craig's list. I think newbies are a little more savvy than that. Legality is not the issue, do it right, see a doctor, get a sleep test, learn all you can about your personal issues and go from there. Not, you don't need no dang doctor, prescription or any of that stuff. Just my opinion.

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:Kind of immature.

did you miss where I apologized for my response after misinterpreting your comments about my grandfather? or does it not matter to you?

No, and I respect you for that. thank you. I should have said that earlier. I hope you realize I'm talking in generalities and not about you.

*holds out hand* friends?

Absolutely! Forever!

Too tall wrote:
You say this as fact but there are numerous medical websites that say otherwise.

And what or where is the documentation for such a statement? I have looked for a real statute or law and I have never been able to find one. All those rules regulations pertain to medical equipment suppliers (DMEs or doctors offices) and there is nothing out there that pertains to the end user or patient.

Too tall wrote:I don't think prudent advise would be to tell a newbie (I consider myself one but I can still think) to go get your stuff on Craig's list. I think newbies are a little more savvy than that. Legality is not the issue, do it right, see a doctor, get a sleep test, learn all you can about your personal issues and go from there. Not, you don't need no dang doctor, prescription or any of that stuff. Just my opinion.

You are most certainly entitled to your opinion but mine differs from yours.
Not everyone can go to a doctor and have the "ideal" sleep test or be able to go that route. People fall through the cracks all the time.
Yeah, it would be nice if it were so simple that everyone could have the "ideal" way to go but sometimes life gets in the way.
I am not going to withhold information to someone in need just because they don't fit in the "ideal" bucket.
We offer the options that are available and it's up to the person to decide what they want to do.
You aren't comfortable with the options as they are but lots of people are comfortable with them and they do just fine.

I am not going to tell someone that so and so is "against the law" when it isn't or just because I personally don't agree with how something gets done. If someone asks for options then I explain the options even if the options are something that I don't particularly agree with. My job is to provide information and what someone does with that information is entirely up to them.

If you ever find any real for sure documentation that points to a real law on the books and not just something spit out by some website that wants to keep all this cpap stuff under the veil of national security and keep us in the dark ...please show it. I have looked and never found one and I am not the only one who has looked.
DMEs and doctors...that's one thing but we as end users/consumers aren't included in the rules and regulations that DMEs and doctors have to follow.
Every time I have ever heard the "it's against the law" garbage it has come from a medical source that comes under the DME or doctor category and when asked to prove it that patients can't do so and so...they shut up because they can't prove it.

Too tall wrote:

Pugsy wrote:SThere are no federal laws prohibiting an individual (private party) from buying/selling/using cpap/apap/bilevel machines.

You say this as fact but there are numerous medical websites that say otherwise.

please do note that she said "individuals" whereas the medical websites, (who I presume you mean sellers) are not private individuals.

Too tall wrote: I think the FDA regulates these things and I'm not going to search the federal register for Craig's list, ha.

yes, it does regulate the first sale of those devices, Pugsy never said it doesn't.

Too tall wrote: I really think this conversation got off track when Craig's list was mentioned and we started talking about the legality issue.

you did bring up your firm opinions on the legality issue.

Too tall wrote: It's really a mute point, isn't it, because I don't think prudent advise would be to tell a newbie (I consider myself one but I can still think) to go get your stuff on Craig's list. I think newbies are a little more savvy than that. Legality is not the issue, do it right, see a doctor, get a sleep test, learn all you can about your personal issues and go from there. Not, you don't need no dang doctor, prescription or any of that stuff. Just my opinion.

not everybody had tons of money, or great insurance, and can't afford the extensive costs of going the "right" way, and being told that they can pick up a machine for a fraction of what it costs to get it from a DME could very well mean the difference in them NOT getting treated, and them getting treated.

Sleep studies and titrations must be nightmares for germaphobes. Used machines and masks and all.

OK so we had our kumbaya moment now the gloves are off again hunh, ha. (that was a joke).

I agree some folks don't have a lot of money but it doesn't take a lot. I have a relative that makes 11K /yr. I personally helped that person get Affordable Health Care (Obama Care). I made the phone calls, did the paper work etc, etc. Not to brag but I'm intermittently familiar with the process and the benefits. This person pays $23 dollars/ month for United Health care insurance that rivals my Medicare/ Aetna.

I don't want to discuss the political aspects of this because I know that would be a hot topic.

So to my simple brain, there is no reason not to, as I said, do it the right way. In fact, it's probably the least expensive way to go. But to recommend Craig's list as a DME and Cpaptalk for medical advise would not be my first choice.

And it's perfectly all right to let people be abused by greedy DME's and lazy, or clueless medical practitioners?
That is not why we are here.
So who pays you for this worthless advice?