CPAPtalk.com

danneves7 wrote:

Julie wrote:Are you using distilled water or ??

Distilled but I never empty the chamber, should I empty and dry daily??

Yes -- like most things in life you can either do things the lazy way, or the right way. I am admittedly guilty of the lazy way, at times. However, the right way is to just follow the manufacturer's instructions. Distilled water, dump out water in a.m. and wash in mild soap (baby shampoo) and dry -- daily. Easy. (Can mold still build up? Perhaps).

Alternatively wash it in the dishwasher, for PR and some ResMed chambers. That should clean and sanitize the chamber better than hand washing, although it may be hard on the plastics.

Also as some say, you can use Control III as directed. I'd go that route, as it is designed for this use and the plastics in pap machines.

I would absolutely NOT pour bleach into the chamber to clean it, etc.

Ultimately, if the slime or mold cant be removed, you may eventually need to do yourself a favor and buy a replacement tub. Biofilms are tenacious and unfortunately these tubs have many small nooks and sharp corners in which buildup is almost impossible to clean. (Thanks a lot CPAP engineers!)

I have been using my ResMed S9 Autoset since June....Distilled water 100%.....Water Chamber has never been washed. I have rinsed it out 3-4 times during that period. Top off the water every 2 nights. The Chamber is crystal clear.

Very good advice given.

Having two tanks is a great idea. I use one and the other is in the dishwasher. When I didn't have a dishwasher, I'd soak one of them in a solution of vinegar and hot water. I do this fortnightly or sooner if I think its needed (I am a lazy cleaner)

hyperlexis wrote:

danneves7 wrote:

Julie wrote:Are you using distilled water or ??

Distilled but I never empty the chamber, should I empty and dry daily??

Yes -- like most things in life you can either do things the lazy way, or the right way. I am admittedly guilty of the lazy way, at times. However, the right way is to just follow the manufacturer's instructions. Distilled water, dump out water in a.m. and wash in mild soap (baby shampoo) and dry -- daily. Easy. (Can mold still build up? Perhaps).

Alternatively wash it in the dishwasher, for PR and some ResMed chambers. That should clean and sanitize the chamber better than hand washing, although it may be hard on the plastics.

Also as some say, you can use Control III as directed. I'd go that route, as it is designed for this use and the plastics in pap machines.

I would absolutely NOT pour bleach into the chamber to clean it, etc.

Ultimately, if the slime or mold cant be removed, you may eventually need to do yourself a favor and buy a replacement tub. Biofilms are tenacious and unfortunately these tubs have many small nooks and sharp corners in which buildup is almost impossible to clean. (Thanks a lot CPAP engineers!)

Just curious as to why you wouldn't use a bleach ie; chlorine solution to kill the mold? You are aware bleach is in our drinking water. And bleach is removed very easily with hot water.

I've been going the lazy way, and I think it's led to an issue with nasal congestion... How about hydrogen peroxide? Is that safe/effective for killing off biofilm?

Too tall wrote:Just curious as to why you wouldn't use a bleach ie; chlorine solution to kill the mold? You are aware bleach is in our drinking water. And bleach is removed very easily with hot water.

Because the manufacturers explicitly say do not use bleach, do not use vinegar, and, presumably, do not use gasoline, garlic or witchcraft either... Would you disinfect your glasses, or contact lenses or dentures in bleach?

The CPAP tubs are made of plastic. They presumably would be adversely affected by pouring bleach into them. -- Absorbing the bleach, and deteriorating the plastic, and/or later leaching back into the water in the humidifier. Hence the warning by manufacturers. I am not going to second guess a cpap engineer. Control III is a different animal and is specifically approved for cpap chamber disinfecting. However, even Control III (Or high temp hot water disinfection - boiling) etc., has a finite number of times it should be used before it can adversely affect the plastic's lifespan, per the instructions on masks and humidifier chamber disinfecting in sleep lab use. (Read your owner's manual).

Also, only minute amounts of chemical chlorine are added to our tap water, which is diluted and dissipated after leaving the treatment plants. (You note our tap water is not sterile or itself disinfecting). This is absolutely not an identical chemical as what is in straight laundry bleach. Plus, obviously, you are not supposed to fill the humidifier with chlorinated tap water anyway, but distilled. (I once saw a girl on My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding literally brush her teeth with laundry bleach on a toothbrush to whiten them, thinking it was the same as dental tooth whitening 'bleach' -- and basically destroying her teeth on camera.... Horrifying.)

I have two tanks as well as two tubings. I wash the one I use every week with all my other items, mask,tubing and sponge filter. I wash them in baby shampoo. I have the tank and tubing dry for the week while I use the other set. I only use distilled water and empty it every morning. I leave the tank out to dry and do not place it back in the machine until ready to use. I use CPAP wipes for the mask daily. Good luck. Hope you get this resolved.

hyperlexis wrote:

Too tall wrote:Just curious as to why you wouldn't use a bleach ie; chlorine solution to kill the mold? You are aware bleach is in our drinking water. And bleach is removed very easily with hot water.

Because the manufacturers explicitly say do not use bleach, do not use vinegar, and, presumably, do not use gasoline, garlic or witchcraft either... Would you disinfect your glasses, or contact lenses or dentures in bleach?

yes, no, probably not, don't have any. but I think my grandfather used to use bleach on his, I don't remember, but he was a practical man, none of this "buy boxes full of expensive stuff for every day cleaning" for him.

hyperlexis wrote: The CPAP tubs are made of plastic.

not the better ones

hyperlexis wrote:Also, only minute amounts of chemical chlorine are added to our tap water, which is diluted and dissipated after leaving the treatment plants. (You note our tap water is not sterile or itself disinfecting). This is absolutely not an identical chemical as what is in straight laundry bleach.

what is it then, please provide some reference material to back up your claims.

hyperlexis wrote:(I once saw a girl on My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding literally brush her teeth with laundry bleach on a toothbrush to whiten them, thinking it was the same as dental tooth whitening 'bleach' -- and basically destroying her teeth on camera.... Horrifying.)

let me introduce you to the concept of "hollywood special effects"

hyperlexis wrote:The CPAP tubs are made of plastic. They presumably would be adversely affected by pouring bleach into them. -- Absorbing the bleach, and deteriorating the plastic, and/or later leaching back into the water in the humidifier. Hence the warning by manufacturers. I am not going to second guess a cpap engineer.

Also, only minute amounts of chemical chlorine are added to our tap water, which is diluted and dissipated after leaving the treatment plants. (You note our tap water is not sterile or itself disinfecting). This is absolutely not an identical chemical as what is in straight laundry bleach.

Lots of people use laundry bleach to purify their drinking water. It's particularly prevalent for people in the country who use cisterns to collect rainwater. State of Montana Department of Environmental Quality. Of course, you need to use it in limited amounts.

Sodium Hypochlorite (the active chlorine compound in bleach) is part of the CDC's "Safe Water System." http://www.cdc.gov/safewater/chlorination-faq.html

Just to be clear, I am !!!NOT!!! recommending bleach in the humidifier water. I don't even recommend it for cleaning, but it's not going to be a health problem if you rinse the tank well. I wouldn't use the tank until I had washed the chlorine smell away.

I'd be reluctant to use bleach because I really hate the smell.

As for damaging the tank, get a spare tank anyway. We're discussing a tank that's been moldy and might be worth throwing away. Just so you don't make it spring a leak.

Me, I'd do the boiling water dunk before I'd use bleach, but I would only do it if I had a spare tank.

Hi I had mould in mine, I gave it a good wash in mild soapy water, rinsed it thoroughly, then steamed
it for 5 mins. Brought it up a treat, it didn't damage it! But be careful, worth a go?

hyperlexis wrote:

Too tall wrote:Just curious as to why you wouldn't use a bleach ie; chlorine solution to kill the mold? You are aware bleach is in our drinking water. And bleach is removed very easily with hot water.

Because the manufacturers explicitly say do not use bleach, do not use vinegar, and, presumably, do not use gasoline, garlic or witchcraft either... Would you disinfect your glasses, or contact lenses or dentures in bleach?

The CPAP tubs are made of plastic. They presumably would be adversely affected by pouring bleach into them. -- Absorbing the bleach, and deteriorating the plastic, and/or later leaching back into the water in the humidifier. Hence the warning by manufacturers. I am not going to second guess a cpap engineer. Control III is a different animal and is specifically approved for cpap chamber disinfecting. However, even Control III (Or high temp hot water disinfection - boiling) etc., has a finite number of times it should be used before it can adversely affect the plastic's lifespan, per the instructions on masks and humidifier chamber disinfecting in sleep lab use. (Read your owner's manual).

Also, only minute amounts of chemical chlorine are added to our tap water, which is diluted and dissipated after leaving the treatment plants. (You note our tap water is not sterile or itself disinfecting). This is absolutely not an identical chemical as what is in straight laundry bleach. Plus, obviously, you are not supposed to fill the humidifier with chlorinated tap water anyway, but distilled. (I once saw a girl on My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding literally brush her teeth with laundry bleach on a toothbrush to whiten them, thinking it was the same as dental tooth whitening 'bleach' -- and basically destroying her teeth on camera.... Horrifying.)

With all due respect, your reply points to why manufacturers have to put these ridiculous warnings on everything. A little common sense goes a long way and unfortunately manufacturers can't count on everyone having some. And please don't think I'm speaking to you directly with that comment. I understand your concern but we are talking about getting rid of mold not routine maintenance. In my reply, I didn't say anything about pouring pure bleach into the hose or anything else as you mentioned, although pure bleach is just a couple of % actual bleach. (this is where the common sense comes in). But irregardless of this misunderstanding, food grade plastic will not absorb chlorine. However, even if it did, hot water will completely eliminate chlorine. (If you've ever maintained a swimming pool in the summer, you'll know what I mean). I'm not aware of what a CPAP Engineer???? does but I suspect they would much prefer you buy a new tank than clean it. Me and Palerider's paw paw must have went to the same school. ha. Chlorine is perfectly safe and with a little common sense, harmless. BTW, it's great for getting the black crap out of your coffee pot filter tray and pot. And if I wore dentures, it wouldn't bother me to use a bleach/ water mixture to kill mold on them, God forbid. Ha. I respect that you don't like or use chlorine, lots of people don't. I don't use a humidifier so I don't have to worry about this problem. I don't know what the manual says about alcohol but that's what I use to disinfect my nasal pad and hose every morning. Takes 2 seconds., but I wouldn't worry about that old CPAP Engineer.

I think half their warnings are meant for people who don't necessarily rinse chemicals, soap, etc. out of the tanks well enough after cleaning them, and so eventually get sick or worse from the build-ups... thereby causing their families to sue the companies and costing them a fortune in legal settlements. But I also wouldn't assume they use 'food grade' plastic (whatever that really is) or anything else and that it's probably a good idea to pay attention to their instructions rather than go off on our own (this isn't about tweaking pressures) and use whatever we feel like.

Julie wrote:I think half their warnings are meant for people who don't necessarily rinse chemicals, soap, etc. out of the tanks well enough after cleaning them, and so eventually get sick or worse from the build-ups... thereby causing their families to sue the companies and costing them a fortune in legal settlements. But I also wouldn't assume they use 'food grade' plastic (whatever that really is) or anything else and that it's probably a good idea to pay attention to their instructions rather than go off on our own (this isn't about tweaking pressures) and use whatever we feel like.

I agree, mostly CYA. Food grade plastic is reusable and does not absorb. Some Plastic cups and containers are meant for one time use. My mother would always wash out Dixie cups etc and reuse them. May not be sanitary. Kind of like using a cutting board to slice up chicken, then chopping up lettuce afterward without sterilization.

Too tall wrote:Kind of like using a cutting board to slice up chicken, then chopping up lettuce afterward without sterilization.

well, that is almost guaranteed to give you food poisoning

palerider wrote:

Too tall wrote:Kind of like using a cutting board to slice up chicken, then chopping up lettuce afterward without sterilization.

well, that is almost guaranteed to give you food poisoning

Yes for sure, salmonella is pretty prevalent in chicken now a days. However, Clorox is the way to cleanse and disinfect a cutting board. There's even a procedure on the clorox website. Your Paw Paw was a smart man.