Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

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Goofproof
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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by Goofproof » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:06 pm

Suenyo wrote:I applaud your handyman skills. One tip if I may offer it to future fixers of this problem: That solder joint looks a bit "cold". If you are worried about overheating, try clamping a tiny pair of ViceGrip pliers on just past the solder point. They will stop the heat from going on down that wire so you can heat the joint till the solder flows completely.
Even better than vice grips, which can be a little heavy, alligator clips make good heat sinks. Heat probably isn't much of a factor as the heat required to burn the plastic connector has already put it to the test. The heat shrink tubing is a good idea, I'd even electric tape that. It's clearly a poor design. Jim
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OmarPodunk

Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by OmarPodunk » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:16 am

Thank you for the clues. Took mine apart and it looked just like your pictures. Cleaned the post up, sniped the contact off, soldered the wire to the post and it worked. Humidity indicator no longer blinks and the element warms up. Should be good tonight. The additional humidity really helps.
This is my guess about this problem.
Phillips spent a lot of money on the plastic molding dies for the case and associated plastic parts. Everything fits well and looks good. Typically the tooling would be expensive. The manufacturer will sometimes attempt to recoup some costs in the electronics end of the product. Easier to take money out of the electronics that the mechanicals.
A single leaf formed contact is not good for current. You get spot heating right where the contact hits the post. The contact "patch" is only a few mils wide so the post tarnishes a little, contact resistance goes up, which starts the heating of the contact at the contact "patch" and over time the contact degrades and quits. Mine took 6 years.
Looking at the PCB inside, the two end pins of the connector are soldered into a large copper plane. Usually this means additional current. A heater [for the water tank] usually uses a large current compared to the electronics of the unit. The design of the circuit & components need to be correct to make sure all works correctly.
> My Opinion, Possible causes:
>Bad design: Attention not given to details. Used 10 cent connector, should have been 50 cent connector [also economics].
>Incorrect manufacturing: Possibly wrong pin crimped on the wire. I've seen this quite a few times.
>Economics: Cost vs Reliability, Used 10 cent connector, should have been 50 cent connector, COMPETITION - "Best for the Least".
And, guess who goes out and purchases a new $200+ humidifier when the problem is in the other unit. Hmmm
There is no reason why these units should have this type of problem. It's all preventable. I'm still annoyed. I was looking for a replacement humidifier when
I found this forum. I'm glad I checked it out and found this string. Thank for all the time you put in the presentation and I do appreciate your help. OmarP

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by mubiksski » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:49 am

Hey great site. I am wondering if this fix will work for me. I don't have a 15 torx so here is my quandry. I am getting voltage from the respirator about but the heater is definitely not working. I think it is about 12 volts from two of the connections and one seems out. So If that wire is bad would I still be getting voltage at all? Another words is it worth it to take it apart, or for sure my heater is shot as it is getting some power?

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palerider
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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:13 am

mubiksski wrote:Hey great site. I am wondering if this fix will work for me. I don't have a 15 torx so here is my quandry.
there are four wires hooked up in a 50, and 6 in a 60 model, so, yes, you could be seeing voltage on others.

t15 drivers aren't hard to find, (auto parts store, hardware store, internet) and aren't expensive

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by mubiksski » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:08 pm

I may have a15 torx in my car tool kit! LOL. But thanks for your response. I had just got the heater back together(I actually have a 15 torx for a 3/8s drive so it doesn't go down the access holes for the screws on the bipap, but it reached all the heater/humidifier screws) So mine is a model 50/4 wires and I got readings from two of four wires. Assuming the lower right is ground. And I am pretty sure it was the upper left that wasn't active. Isn't that the one that burns out? So thanks again. I will get apart in the near future.

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palerider
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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by palerider » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:27 pm

mubiksski wrote:I may have a15 torx in my car tool kit! LOL. But thanks for your response. I had just got the heater back together(I actually have a 15 torx for a 3/8s drive so it doesn't go down the access holes for the screws on the bipap, but it reached all the heater/humidifier screws) So mine is a model 50/4 wires and I got readings from two of four wires. Assuming the lower right is ground. And I am pretty sure it was the upper left that wasn't active. Isn't that the one that burns out? So thanks again. I will get apart in the near future.
I'm afraid I have no idea which one is which... all i know is where the fault typically happens in the blower, based on the pics I've seen here, but I don't know which pin on the interconnect that goes to.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by nsailsb » Thu May 21, 2015 3:46 pm

I'm glad to see this seems to have helped a few people. I'd never done a write up like this before, but when I found the problem I thought it might help someone else. Also, I'm happy to report it has been 6 months since I did this to my CPAP machine and the humidifier is still working great.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by aben » Thu May 21, 2015 5:14 pm

nsailsb,

Many thanks for your post on repairing the PRS1 humidifier. It illustrates the unselfish helpfulness that many on this forum are willing to provide.

aben

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Thu May 21, 2015 5:44 pm

One problem (or benefit depending on your views), with the various PR series 50 or 60 machines is that you can use the clinician's menu to program them for the retro 'classic' humidifier mode (which I've done several times). This option really cranks out the heat and ups the humidity considerably... naturally the power requirements will soar when you do this. It's no big surprise that all the new amperage has to go thru that same problematic, possibly defective, pin and socket connectors and even the PCB.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by css28 » Fri May 22, 2015 6:33 am

I opened up my wife's machine to proactively exercise connectors and apply dielectric grease to each and find the charring shown in this presentation. Her humidifier had continued to work but I wanted to check out the situation.
I found that the only force pressing the connector contact to the tang from the pcb is the tight fit of the plastic housing (the contact only presses on one side of the tang). With the plastic melted like that, the contact force relaxes, accelerating the self-destruction.

I opted to clean the tang with a file but leave the connector intact. By bending the tangs down towards the board I've got positive contact pressure now as the tangs clamp the connector against the board.
I applied dielectric grease to the connection and the humidifier continues to work a couple of months later.
I may have to solder things eventually but decided to give this a try for now.
Last edited by css28 on Fri May 22, 2015 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sir NoddinOff
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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri May 22, 2015 9:59 am

css28 wrote:I found that the only force pressing the connector contact to the tang from the pcb is the tight fit of the plastic housing (the contact only presses on one side of the tang). With the plastic melted like that, the contact force relaxes, accelerating the self-destruction.

I opted to clean the tang with a file but leave the connector intact. By bending the tangs down towards the board I've got got positive contact pressure now as the tangs clamp the connector against the board.
I applied dielectric grease to the connection and the humidifier continues to work a couple of months later.
I may have to solder things eventually but decided to give this a try for now.
Nice detective work. I'm tempted to take my series 60 apart and check it out since you inspired me, even tho it hasn't shown any humidifier problems so far.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by palerider » Fri May 22, 2015 10:44 am

Sir NoddinOff wrote:Nice detective work. I'm tempted to take my series 60 apart and check it out since you inspired me, even tho it hasn't shown any humidifier problems so far.
well, the system one machines, both 50 and 60 series, come apart and go back together very easily, pull the one knob, two t15 screws, and lift off the lid.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by Sir NoddinOff » Fri May 22, 2015 1:28 pm

palerider wrote:
Sir NoddinOff wrote:Nice detective work. I'm tempted to take my series 60 apart and check it out since you inspired me, even tho it hasn't shown any humidifier problems so far.
well, the system one machines, both 50 and 60 series, come apart and go back together very easily, pull the one knob, two t15 screws, and lift off the lid.
Hi PR. Yeah, I did the PR models a couple of times last year when researching the muffling of the beeper/transducer - you're right the PRs are easy if you have some electronics experience. My only caveat is when you slide the pin and socket connectors on the PC board back together, do it VERY gently, or you'll bend the board connector way back and have to use a needlenose pliers to straighten them back out... hopefully the wave-flowed solder joints mounting the connectors to the board won't be wrecked.

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by palerider » Fri May 22, 2015 2:04 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote:
palerider wrote:
Sir NoddinOff wrote:Nice detective work. I'm tempted to take my series 60 apart and check it out since you inspired me, even tho it hasn't shown any humidifier problems so far.
well, the system one machines, both 50 and 60 series, come apart and go back together very easily, pull the one knob, two t15 screws, and lift off the lid.
My only caveat is when you slide the pin and socket connectors on the PC board back together, do it VERY gently, or you'll bend the board connector way back and have to use a needlenose pliers to straighten them back out... hopefully the wave-flowed solder joints mounting the connectors to the board won't be wrecked.
that's good advice for anytime you're tinkering around inside something... be gentle, don't force it, if it doesn't come apart like you think it should, *gently* probe around for hidden clips or screws hiding under rubber feet, etc...

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Re: Fix: Respironics System One (50 series) Humidifier Problems

Post by Goofproof » Thu Oct 29, 2015 10:41 pm

Sir NoddinOff wrote:
Suenyo wrote:I applaud your handyman skills. One tip if I may offer it to future fixers of this problem: That solder joint looks a bit "cold". If you are worried about overheating, try clamping a tiny pair of ViceGrip pliers on just past the solder point. They will stop the heat from going on down that wire so you can heat the joint till the solder flows completely.
Thanks Suenyo, that's a great tip for dissipating heat during soldering. I learned that trick back in high school but somehow forgot it along the many years since then. I used to use a hemostat, the same kind pot smokers use for roaches. Somewhat easier to fit in tight spaces.
To have less strain on the heat sink, I use alligator clips, less weight to put strain on the part, the sink tubing idea is good too, slide it up the wire before you solder the wire, duh, also slide cardboard under repair, to protect the circuit board from dripping solder, and use multi core rosin solder. After cleaning the connector (sanding to fresh medal), tin the prong, with solder, then tin the wire, then solder the two together, slide tubing and sink it. Remove cardboard done...

If the wire was heavier in the first place, it probably have not failed as the heat would have been pulled away by the copper in the wire. When a connection starts heating up, it only gets worse, not pushing the connector strict on the pins weakens the connection too. Cudos, great repair! Jim
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