CPAPtalk.com

Janknitz wrote:
I don't appreciate the implication that I'm either too stupid to understand and account for my dietary macros or I'm a liar. Who the hell are you to say such a rude thing?

It happens to people all the time. Something seems to work for them and they get the evangelists' fire. See my thread about Kangen water - viewtopic.php?f=1&t=101707&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

That woman again today brought over a large cup of Kangen water and asked me to drink it. Grrrrrrr.

That woman again today brought over a large cup of Kangen water and asked me to drink it. Grrrrrrr.

You should drink it the next time - it probably won't hurt you. Then tell he the next morning tell her you were up all night with diarrhea. Maybe she will drop the subject.

ChicagoGranny wrote:

That woman again today brought over a large cup of Kangen water and asked me to drink it. Grrrrrrr.

You should drink it the next time - it probably won't hurt you. Then tell he the next morning tell her you were up all night with diarrhea. Maybe she will drop the subject.

+ lots and lots!

You should drink it the next time - it probably won't hurt you. Then tell he the next morning tell her you were up all night with diarrhea. Maybe she will drop the subject.

No, she will probably say that's "die off" of the bad stuff or a "Herxheimer reaction" and a good sign!

No, she will probably say that's "die off" of the bad stuff or a "Herxheimer reaction" and a good sign!

I guess if I told her it constipated me she would have a comeback for that too.

I would be in favor of the government staying out of the business of recommending nutritional guidelines.

bv1800 wrote:

MrGrumpy wrote:Healthy lean people eat lots of lean meats and protein products, little simple sugars, some low glycemic carbs, lots of non starchy veggies and some fruit. And drink lots of water. And exercise a lot. Did I say A LOT?

.... just like everyone who has OSA is an obese, male who is 50+ years old and their OSA can be cured by losing weight.

LOL bv1800 as one who has been told my two male doctors that I as a thin female can't possibly have sleep apnea. Once I have my sleep study next week, I am so tempted to send them a copy of my sleep study which I totally expect will report an even worse AHI than my home study did which was a horse bleep test in my opinion.

49er

Sheriff Buford wrote:Does this mean I can blame Obama for my weight?

Sheriff

No, It's still Bush's fault.

[quote="RobertS975"]OK, writing this as a physician and a sleep apnea patient... first, the Federal government did NOT make America fat. It is obviously a multi-factorial problem that includes super-sized fast food, an increasing sedentary lifestyle and massive denial. But in essence, the government has publicized the food pyramid developed by nutrition science for decades where grains and carbs were at the base of the pyramid, and meats at the very top of the pyramid. Dr. Atkins started shaking the basis of this several decades ago, and was ridiculed and vilified by established medicine. He was one of the first voices to raise the issue of insulin resistance, carb craving, and the notion that a small amount of protein and fat satisfy hunger while a large amount of carbs simply caused the individual to crave more carbs.

As we have seen in other areas (climate change comes to mind), once something becomes "dogma", it is extremely difficult to change, regardless of the facts. Facts that do not support the accepted dogma are discounted, scientists that speak up with doubts about the accepted dogma are ignored or ridiculed. Economic issues come into play (think corn and wheat mega-farm conglomerates).

It is very valuable to keep an open mind when it comes to medical facts. As a practicing physician for over 35 years, but still in my early 60's, I have seen how much the medical facts that we thought we knew for sure change dramatically over the years. We should also keep this in mind when it comes to obstructive sleep apnea and the way we currently treat it. Someday, we or our ancestors may look back at this era with amusement...[/quote

Yes, hope they come up with a pill that cures sleep apnea. Wouldn't that be something.

Too tall wrote:I would be in favor of the government staying out of the business of recommending nutritional guidelines.

+1

49er wrote:

Sheriff Buford wrote:Does this mean I can blame Obama for my weight?

Sheriff

First you have to stop blaming Bush! jim

Not Fade wrote:

Janknitz wrote:I lost 70 lbs (and have kept it off 3 years now) on a low carb high fat diet. Exercise? Not much, but now I CAN (and do ) exercise because I feel great. No more skeletal pain, great energy, great lipid numbers, excellent blood glucose control.

Your case is noteworthy because it is rare and not because tens of thousands have found success with such a poor diet. (This is assuming your assessment of your diet as low-carb/high-fat is even accurate.)

Rare? No. Careful criticizing something you may not fully understand. Yours may be the opinion that sways someone away from choices that can very well extend and increase quality of life. The key concepts are to control insulin levels and to reduce LDL particle count. Both can be measured objectively so there is no need to argue: just measure and control. If there are mitigating factors such as obesity, diabetes or family history of atherosclerosis, for example, then you can use these measurements to make significant lifestyle changes such as diet and also supplement with medications.

Weight is a significant factor but not the end-game. Hard to prove to any great degree but weight is much easier to maintain and control when eating low carbohydrate. It may be an artifact of individual metabolism but there is a lot of medical guidance suggesting otherwise. Requires a well designed population study with safeguards against bias. Will probably never happen.

There are already some studies and there are more coming. See, for example http://www.nusi.org

Research has shown already that LDL-C does not predict cardiovascular risk. LDL-P is a more promising measure. Peter Attia has written extensively on his blog about that at http://www.eatingacademy.com.

What has consistently correlated well to cardiovascular risk is low triglycerides and high HDL-C. My "poor" diet has dramatically shifted those for me--trigs are 55, HDL is 100.

Not Fade is making unfounded assumptions that I eat only meat and cheese since I mentioned LCHF. I don't eat Atkins crap products or anyone else's products. I eat moderate amounts of organic and pastured meat and eggs, wild caught fish, large amounts of non-starchy vegetables (more vegetables than most of my "vegetarian" friends) and small amounts of low glycemic fruit. I include organ meats (packed with vitamins!) and fermented foods. I avoid most dairy and all grains and industrially processed fats. I eat REAL FOODS. What exactly is poor about that?

For decades our government HAS been pushing a grain based diet with industrially processed so-called "vegetable" fats, and the statistics show that our population has complied by eating a lot of grains and lowering saturated animal fat intake. What has that has accomplished? A lot of fat, sick people. Time to think outside the cereal box.

Janknitz wrote:
Not Fade is making unfounded assumptions that I eat only meat and cheese since I mentioned LCHF. I don't eat Atkins crap products or anyone else's products. I eat moderate amounts of organic and pastured meat and eggs, wild caught fish, large amounts of non-starchy vegetables (more vegetables than most of my "vegetarian" friends) and small amounts of low glycemic fruit. I include organ meats (packed with vitamins!) and fermented foods. I avoid most dairy and all grains and industrially processed fats. I eat REAL FOODS. What exactly is poor about that?

That's about how my mother fed us growing up and it's pretty much how my wife and I have been eating for the last 18 years.

You mischaracterize your diet by calling it LCHF. I know some people that have tried LCHF and none of them were able to sustain this diet for more than a year.

Fats 65% or greater, Carbs 15% or less (no more than 50 grams). That's LCHF.