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Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:43 pm
by Midnight Strangler
The loudest cheers to chunkyfrog, cathyf, 49er, tan, TangledHose, palerider, Goofproof, Wulfman..., Denial Dave, racprops and bwexler for recognizing the great folly of this proposal.
And another big cheer to Snowleopard28,
Snowleopard28 wrote:I'm new and have a question for sleepgrumpy. You wrote:
sleepygrumpy wrote:When I had an issue with a machine or two, I called the FDA to ask what they know.
What was the issue you had that you could not call the manufacture that made the machine and ask them? or maybe your DME provider?
who asked the critical question. What kind of lame-brain idea was calling the FDA instead of the manufacturer or distributor??? Or asking forum members???
A government bureaucrat would be the last person I would call if I had a problem with any product!
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 2:52 pm
by Wulfman...
Midnight Strangler wrote:The loudest cheers to chunkyfrog, cathyf, 49er, tan, TangledHose, palerider, Goofproof, Wulfman..., Denial Dave, racprops and bwexler for recognizing the great folly of this proposal.
And another big cheer to Snowleopard28,
Snowleopard28 wrote:I'm new and have a question for sleepgrumpy. You wrote:
sleepygrumpy wrote:When I had an issue with a machine or two, I called the FDA to ask what they know.
What was the issue you had that you could not call the manufacture that made the machine and ask them? or maybe your DME provider?
who asked the critical question. What kind of lame-brain idea was calling the FDA instead of the manufacturer or distributor??? Or asking forum members???
A government bureaucrat would be the last person I would call if I had a problem with any product!
Right! I think most of us got caught up in the "calling your representative and giving the government more power" scenario and overlooked the first lines of the post.
Congrats to "Snowleopard28" for nailing what we missed.
I suspect that only a bureaucrat could/would think in those terms (of the original poster).
Den
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Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:02 pm
by chunkyfrog
Due to seemingly unlimited funding, I'm not as concerned about the NSA as the ATF.
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:49 pm
by Davidwnc
Wulfman... wrote:
No, the solution is very SIMPLE......not allowing people from various parts of the world into the country.......including the southern border......where this new strain of what appears to be related to polio is coming in from......Enterovirus D68, also known as EV-D68 (which so far has been more deadly than Ebola).
The southern border needs to be closed!
Because diseases only like to travel in a North?
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:56 pm
by palerider
Wulfman... wrote:
The southern border needs to be closed!
there's a lot of things that you say, Den, that I quite respect.
but, now and then, you really just need to go soak your head.
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:00 pm
by palerider
Snowleopard28 wrote:I'm new and have a question for sleepgrumpy. You wrote:
sleepygrumpy wrote:When I had an issue with a machine or two, I called the FDA to ask what they know.
What was the issue you had that you could not call the manufacture that made the machine and ask them? or maybe your DME provider?
it's more fun to rabble rouse than to try and be effective
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:02 pm
by palerider
chunkyfrog wrote:Due to seemingly unlimited funding, I'm not as concerned about the NSA as the ATF.
no shit, and DEA... I can't have medicine to open up my stuffy nose and alleviate my back pain WHY????
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:05 pm
by palerider
Davidwnc wrote:Wulfman... wrote:
No, the solution is very SIMPLE......not allowing people from various parts of the world into the country.......including the southern border......where this new strain of what appears to be related to polio is coming in from......Enterovirus D68, also known as EV-D68 (which so far has been more deadly than Ebola).
The southern border needs to be closed!
Because diseases only like to travel in a North?
it's a fact!!! never west, never east, never south! only north... that's why canada is a festering pit of all the known maladies, *everybody* there is sick!
oh, .... wait....
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:10 pm
by Wulfman...
Davidwnc wrote:Wulfman... wrote:
No, the solution is very SIMPLE......not allowing people from various parts of the world into the country.......including the southern border......where this new strain of what appears to be related to polio is coming in from......Enterovirus D68, also known as EV-D68 (which so far has been more deadly than Ebola).
The southern border needs to be closed!
Because diseases only like to travel in a North?
They travel TO the North (or any other direction).......with the people that are carrying them.
On the Ebola front, here are some of the countries that are taking action.
https://www.internationalsos.com/ebola/ ... age_id=ENG
Den
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Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:28 pm
by Davidwnc
They travel in all directions...so what would be the point of closing only one boarder?
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:35 pm
by Pesser
johnnygoodman wrote:Howdy,
The FDA has the impossible task of ensuring absolute safety without exerting absolute control.
There is simply too much complexity and information in our world for any one of us to understand it all. At some point we've got to trust another who has look deeply into an area we have not. Institutions spring up as a result of this need.
Laissez-faire capitalism allows snake oil salesmen to thrive just as the knowledge that at some point a population needs to trust to function leads to corruption and undue control on the part of officials. Ya'll are speaking as if one or the other was true. This makes no sense to me. I see it as a gradient and about picking the best trade offs and middle ground given that it is so.
@sleepygrumpy, you call us names for not agreeing with your initial opinion. The support of your stated position isn't fact based but emotional. That seems more of a heard animal mentality to me. You've got an MD and a PhD but we've got actual real life experience coming up against the controls the FDA does have in place. I'd say on this gradient we're more informed and our opinion more likely to be correct as we've seen deeply into this particular area. Surely your position isn't "give them the power and everything will be sunshine"?
As has been pointed out, there was a time (read "The Jungle") where capitalism had its chance to self correct and produce safe products and practices. It didn't happen.
In reaction there was a time where setting up an institution was assumed to be guarantee that the institution would produce good results. We're seeing that this doesn't happen either.
Should there be an FDA? Yeah. Will handing them more power guarantee better experiences and results? Probably not. Is it worth the risk as a result? No, unless you can tell me what specifically gets better and how accountability is ensured.
Johnny
I’m trying to understand your position and I am having difficulty.
I’m Canadian and I am very much affected by the FDA, EPA, and SEC. The SEC gave us World Com and the banking scandal. Two guys in the mail room were saying “they can’t be doing this”! Yep…they did. The EPA has given us the “LNT” (linear no threshold). This means that if you eat an inorganic apple, the DDT on it can give you a chance of .000056% of dying of cancer after you’re 84.6 years old. (They admit that they can’t measure it because it either is incorrect or too small; they can’t measure the existence of God either but stay away from that one). The FDA gave us statins. There is no study that shows cholesterol causes heart disease. There are many studies that lie about it. The real studies that the “American Heart Foundation” are referring to actually state in the executive summary that no “correlation can be established at this time”. I have been reading these studies for two years now. The serious ones of over 50,000 people show that if you reduce cholesterol heart disease goes up!
If I am reading your tone correctly; is it that you believe Americans are better off with the FDA than without it?
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:56 pm
by Davidwnc
Pesser wrote:The SEC gave us World Com and the banking scandal.
Thank you for clearing that up. All this time I thought the banking scandal had been caused by bankers making countless loans to people who couldn't afford them. Now I see it was the SEC's fault. This will make family reunions so much more pleasant, because my mother used to be a bank teller, and she was getting sick of me blaming the whole thing on her.
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:03 pm
by Wulfman...
Davidwnc wrote:They travel in all directions...so what would be the point of closing only one boarder?
Because, at this point, the southern border is where most of the people carrying Enterovirus D68 (also known as EV-D68) are coming from.
Den
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Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:06 pm
by palerider
Wulfman... wrote:Davidwnc wrote:They travel in all directions...so what would be the point of closing only one boarder?
Because, at this point, the southern border is where most of the people carrying Enterovirus D68 (also known as EV-D68) are coming from.
I presume you mean the southern border of wyoming, cuz you're a long way away from the southen border of the US.
Re: FDA Oversight of CPAP
Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 5:11 pm
by Wulfman...
palerider wrote:Wulfman... wrote:Davidwnc wrote:They travel in all directions...so what would be the point of closing only one boarder?
Because, at this point, the southern border is where most of the people carrying Enterovirus D68 (also known as EV-D68) are coming from.
I presume you mean the southern border of wyoming, cuz you're a long way away from the southen border of the US.
But, "historically", Wyoming (territory) used to be part of Mexico.
Den
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