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Im still having problems sleeping more than 6.5 hours most night. Im hoping someone will see something in the graphs and spreadsheet I've put together. My last Titration was back in 2007 and 13cm was the level, back in 1995 11cm was my level.
According to what Im seeing in the graphs I've hit 13cm only one time, a max average of 11.58, and 90% max average of 11.74 all in the last 10 days.

I feel as if I have great sleep habits.....my down fall is I fall asleep on the coach before bed normally for less than an hour.

Now that I have NO one in the medical community to help I need your help (CPAP/Study/Titration rider is not in my Insurance policy and hasn't been since around 1997). Im 100% out of pocket.

IMO there is nothing shown on your graphs that would be the cause of your 6.5 hour nights. (You could do better to control leaks). I have been on CPAP for 6 years and my average night is 6-6.5 hours. Some people (like me) do not require more sleep. How do you feel during the day...do you take naps? Perhaps..before CPAP your sleep was fragmented and you were still tired when you were awake. With CPAP you may be getting a better sleep.

fdw wrote:. . . problems sleeping more than 6.5 hours most night. . . . down fall is I fall asleep on the coach before bed normally for less than an hour. . . .

Can you help me with the math? Are you including couch time in the 6.5?

fdw wrote: I fall asleep on the coach before bed normally for less than an hour.

What does he/she think of that?

You need to cut out that nap and go to bed with the CPAP.

When you are sleeping on the couch without CPAP, you could be having apneas. The apneas fill your body with cortisol which can significantly lower your sleep quality.

Do it without the nap.

jnk wrote:

fdw wrote:. . . problems sleeping more than 6.5 hours most night. . . . down fall is I fall asleep on the coach before bed normally for less than an hour. . . .

Can you help me with the math? Are you including couch time in the 6.5?

NO.....CPAP sleep only (what the machine reviels in time)

DeadlySleep wrote:. . . When you are sleeping on the couch without CPAP, you could be having apneas. The apneas fill your body with cortisol which can significantly lower your sleep quality. . . .

Well said.

In another thread, I note this statement from you, fdw:

If I lay down (not sleep) for 45-60 minutes in the afternoon (2-3 PM) I regain some of my power back.

Two things strike me about that statement.

One is that you don't fall asleep when you lie down in the afternoon. That would tend to indicate you may not be all that bad off in the sleep-deprivation department.

Two is that the rest, without sleep, seems to help. That would tend to indicate that improvements in how you feel may be more a matter of aspects of the awake-time in your life. You may get more returns from looking at activity levels and awake-time approaches to things rather than putting too much added effort into tweaking night pressures.

All of that is merely a guess based on assumptions based on statements I may have misread--so add multiple grains of salt to anything I say.

I admire your problem-solving approach to finding ways to improve your life.

I wish you success.

DeadlySleep wrote:

fdw wrote: I fall asleep on the coach before bed normally for less than an hour.

What does he/she think of that?

You need to cut out that nap and go to bed with the CPAP.

When you are sleeping on the couch without CPAP, you could be having apneas. The apneas fill your body with cortisol which can significantly lower your sleep quality.

Do it without the nap.

Totally agreed.....very bad habit that's hard to break. I've really, really tried the past few nights NOT to fall asleep on the coach. I think the only way is to sit in my recliner and not lye down........Thanks for your recommendation.

What are cortisol???? Never heard of that.

Thanks

Cortisol is medical-speak for panic juice released into the blood.

Until your body/brain learns that it/they can relax instead of remaining on high-alert for airway closures, your sleep may not be optimal. That is why using PAP at ALL times is part of the success of the therapy. It takes time for the body/brain to learn not to sit there with a hair-trigger finger on the panic-juice button just waiting for a limited breath. Every time you fall asleep without your machine running, you tell the little hair-trigger gremlins inside you not to let sleep happen naturally, because there still seems to be an intermittent sleep-breathing problem that hasn't gone completely away, from the body/brain's point of view.

My above wording is not taught or endorsed by any medical personnel. And there are no meds available to turn off my overly active imagination when trying to describe my personal takes on things.

jnk wrote:

DeadlySleep wrote:. . . When you are sleeping on the couch without CPAP, you could be having apneas. The apneas fill your body with cortisol which can significantly lower your sleep quality. . . .

Well said.

In another thread, I note this statement from you, fdw:

If I lay down (not sleep) for 45-60 minutes in the afternoon (2-3 PM) I regain some of my power back.

Two things strike me about that statement.

One is that you don't fall asleep when you lie down in the afternoon. That would tend to indicate you may not be all that bad off in the sleep-deprivation department.

Two is that the rest, without sleep, seems to help. That would tend to indicate that improvements in how you feel may be more a matter of aspects of the awake-time in your life. You may get more returns from looking at activity levels and awake-time approaches to things rather than putting too much added effort into tweaking night pressures.

All of that is merely a guess based on assumptions based on statements I may have misread--so add multiple grains of salt to anything I say.

I admire your problem-solving approach to finding ways to improve your life.

I wish you success.

As I stated I have to be my own health advocate. There has to be a rime to the reason just trying to learn all I can after nearly 20 years on CPAP Im really impressed with all the help from this forum.

As far as searching for number (Minimum's and Maximum's) trying to get to a near correct titration level as possible on my OWN, unless I pay out of pocket for a study.....And I don't have that kinda cash....I just spent $735 out of pocket for the S9.

fdw wrote: . . . I have to be my own health advocate. . . .

As do we all, my friend. As do we all. I hate that you find yourself in that position, but many in that position end up making better decisions with their health than the people who think pros will do it for them. In my opinion. You know to be vigilant. View that as a gift, to the extent you can. I mean, if you want to.

fdw wrote:. . . trying to get to a near correct titration level as possible on my OWN, . . . .

Best way to do it. For anyone. I like sleep studies. They can come in real handy. But night-to-night pressures? That is best done on one's own if one has the gumption and knowledge. And I would trust Pugsy's take on that stuff more than I would the head sleep doc at a sleep-doc convention. Seriously. Sleep docs can come in handy, but they ain't all that when it comes to a patient finding optimal night-to-night comfortable effective pressures. Just sayin'.

My only point was not to put down your attempts at finding good pressure. I applaud that. My point is that you may get more bang for the worry by looking at practical things like not sleeping without PAP, making sure your amount of exercise is optimal, and making sure you are taking care of yourself in other aspects of health beyond amount of PAP. Diet and lifestyle choices, even when good, can be tweaked too--just like pressure. And sometimes that lifestyle tweak can pay off far above and beyond the pressure tweak.

Or not. I don't know your specific situation, so I may be all wet. My experience was that once I got pressures close, at that point diet, exercise, and lifestyle became tweakable and with higher dividends, while I kept a watchful eye on machine data to make sure nothing was way off.

But hey, that was just me. Your mileage may vary.

And by the way, I asked about whether you included couch time because you may be getting 7+ hours a night--which may be enough for you, since you don't nod off when lying down in the afternoon. That's why I asked. I think your sleep may be better than you think, but, as I said, that's just my guess based on my take on your words and descriptions, and I'm often wrong, according to my wife.

On paper...your therapy looks great. I don't see anything on the reports that is just screaming out "fix me".

I suspect that you probably have already used straight cpap fixed pressures at some time in your 20 years of therapy. Are you using auto (APAP) adjusting pressures now just to see if it makes any difference? Some people find that the auto adjusting varying pressures are a disruptive factor to general sleep quality. It may or may not be an issue for you.

Do you sleep soundly while using the machine those 6.5 hours? Or do you have a lot of wake ups during that time period.
Naps on the couch just prior to the sleep session in bed are bad things to do especially without the cpap machine. It totally messes up the body's sleep cycle not to mention being without the machine and the damage that the untreated sleep apnea does during that time period. That's going to be a hard habit to break if you have been doing it 20 something years.

Don't lay down on the couch....stay upright no matter how tempting it might be to lay down.

Do you take any meds of any kind? If so, what? I don't remember if I asked that before...so forgive me if I have.

Pugsy wrote:On paper...your therapy looks great. I don't see anything on the reports that is just screaming out "fix me".

I suspect that you probably have already used straight cpap fixed pressures at some time in your 20 years of therapy. Are you using auto (APAP) adjusting pressures now just to see if it makes any difference? Some people find that the auto adjusting varying pressures are a disruptive factor to general sleep quality. It may or may not be an issue for you.

Do you sleep soundly while using the machine those 6.5 hours? Or do you have a lot of wake ups during that time period.
Naps on the couch just prior to the sleep session in bed are bad things to do especially without the cpap machine. It totally messes up the body's sleep cycle not to mention being without the machine and the damage that the untreated sleep apnea does during that time period. That's going to be a hard habit to break if you have been doing it 20 something years.

Don't lay down on the couch....stay upright no matter how tempting it might be to lay down.

Do you take any meds of any kind? If so, what? I don't remember if I asked that before...so forgive me if I have.

Sure do.

Eliquis 5mg twice daily (blood thinner)
Sotalol 80mg twice daily (AF)
Quinaprill 10mg/daily (BP)
Nexium 23mg/ daily (digestive)
Xanax 0.25 - 0.50 as needed (generic brand)

If you just bought a machine recently, then do you still have your previous machine? Can you put it next to the couch, and when you start to doze off, use it?

You might research the side effects
Sotalol and Quinapril have fatigue or tiredness as a side effect. I didn't see anything about insomnia or trouble sleeping though.
Your blood thinner and Nexium don't seem to have fatigue or sleep issues as a side effect

Xanax
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam
I know it's weird when a med has both a "may cause drowsiness" and a "may cause sleep problems/insomnia" side effect but it happens fairly often. My daytime pain med comes with the usual "may cause drowsiness" sticker side effect but it actually sort of wires me up and there's a lesser known side effect listed if one looks at all the side effects...insomnia. I don't dare take it after 6 PM or I am up cleaning house at 1 AM.

But in general...nothing stands out in your meds that would be a common culprit for not sleeping as long as you wish. So I doubt the answer is there. Xanax is a maybe and you probably don't take it daily anyway.

That nap on the couch without cpap isn't doing you any favors though.

jnk wrote:

If I lay down (not sleep) for 45-60 minutes in the afternoon (2-3 PM) I regain some of my power back.

Two things strike me about that statement.

One is that you don't fall asleep when you lie down in the afternoon. That would tend to indicate you may not be all that bad off in the sleep-deprivation department.

unless the OP is reading the whole time, and holding a book, there's not much way to know conclusively that he wasn't sleeping, and having apneas,... and just THINKING he was awake.

I used to watch tv with friends, and I'd THINK I was awake the whole time, but they'd tell me I was snoring, and bobbleheading.