AveoTSD

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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SleepyEyes21
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Re: AveoTSD

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:25 am

palerider wrote:I love how the unregistered troll pops in, drops a "cpap is bad" turd and ignites the shitstorm of argument.

if they were a real person, with a real anti-cpap issue, then a generic apena board would be a better place to post, don'cha think?
Isn't this a generic apnea board??

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by kteague » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:29 am

Snorkle2 wrote: I just used a medium-size AveoTSD for the first time last night that I bought new online for only $85.00 and I will be using it until something miraculous changes in my physiology. I have tried the oral appliance my sleep DDS made for me and it does not keep my enlarged tongue from falling back and waking me up and I refuse to try a CPAP so this was my last chance at having a good night without waking, heart pounding, ear ringing and fatigue all day. I woke up twice, very briefly, as this is the adjustment phase but the only negative thing I experienced was a little drool out of one corner of my mouth and my tongue had a slight red "hickey" on the tip of it, felt slightly numb but within 30 minutes it was back to normal. This is the ticket for me!! I tried Provent and they are horrible...the holes get smaller after Phase 1 and Phase 2 and it was not a fun experience. I would say the $ is worth the experiment and don't let the dentist or doctor talk you out of trying it. Best wishes to all! I would highly recommend one night's trial or maybe a nap on Saturday to see how you do. What have you got to lose?
This post has all the characteristics of a drive-by "sales pitch"...
- Say enough for the reader to be able to google and find it without giving a link and being obvious
- Dramatic language "last chance" even though all options have not been explored
- Proselytize through appearing to relate to those disgruntled with competitors
- Systematic slaying of the competition in seemingly innocent story form. (oral appliances, Provent, CPAP)
- Discredit those who might speak against it (dentist, doctor)
- Insert negligible adverse experience - just enough to seem real without being a turnoff
- Huckster language of "give it a try" and "what have you got to lose"
- No refund policy language and an implication the purchase price is the trial price "the $ is worth the experiment"
- Why else would one post on a CPAP board when they clearly will not be using CPAP


I happen to be particularly tuned into this sales conversation as I recently attended a focus group for CPAP users and part of the discussion group was critiquing the language that would be most effective to convince a person to try the product, particularly to convert a CPAP user (or non-user) to their alternative solution. I have no problem with the business of making potential customers aware of a product. I do take personal issue with manipulation and trickery. Doesn't set a good tone for getting me to trust your claims about your product. I typically qualify my remarks by leaving wiggle room in case I am wrong. Don't feel the need to do so here. As I said in the focus group, if I get one whiff in the air of manipulation, I'm turned off. This is more than a whiff - it reeks.

Disclaimer: My post has absolutely nothing to do with the viability of the product as a treatment option. I am not qualified to speak to that. My comments are strictly about my perception of the intent of the original post.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by chunkyfrog » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:31 am

Freedom of speech allows my immediate rebuttal to the promotion of an unproven therapy.
Maybe I should have just spammed him!

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by HoseCrusher » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:35 am

mmmmm frog spam... Tasty?

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by 49er » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:44 am

SleepyEyes21 wrote:
palerider wrote:I love how the unregistered troll pops in, drops a "cpap is bad" turd and ignites the shitstorm of argument.

if they were a real person, with a real anti-cpap issue, then a generic apena board would be a better place to post, don'cha think?
Isn't this a generic apnea board??
That is what I thought SleepyEyes21. But apparently, if you dare speak badly of pap therapy, you will tasered for your bad attitude.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:48 am

SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?
.
this is, after all, a cpap support forum, there are other generalized apnea support forums, like, apneasupport.org, that discourage all the things that this board encourages, like being involved in your therapy, knowing what's going on, taking charge of it, etc.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by ems » Mon Sep 01, 2014 11:50 am

SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
But doesn't the OP have that right NOT to try cpap and to even refuse it? I haven't been in this forum for very long, but have read posts that talk about 'freedom of speech, etc.' It seems to me that most posters only are allowed 'freedom of speech' without repercussion IF they agree with the mainstream here.

CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?

I think if we want others to listen and respect us, we need to give the same in return.
Excellent post SleepyEyes21!

There is a huge difference between stating our opinions and then "pushing" / "encouraging". But, we've had discussions about this before and nothing has ever changed... and probably never will.
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Re: AveoTSD

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:20 pm

49er wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
palerider wrote:I love how the unregistered troll pops in, drops a "cpap is bad" turd and ignites the shitstorm of argument.

if they were a real person, with a real anti-cpap issue, then a generic apena board would be a better place to post, don'cha think?
Isn't this a generic apnea board??
That is what I thought SleepyEyes21. But apparently, if you dare speak badly of pap therapy, you will tasered for your bad attitude.

49er
I prefer Chinese water torture, thank you

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:27 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:
palerider wrote:I love how the unregistered troll pops in, drops a "cpap is bad" turd and ignites the shitstorm of argument.

if they were a real person, with a real anti-cpap issue, then a generic apena board would be a better place to post, don'cha think?
Isn't this a generic apnea board??
no. just look at the title. look at the content of 99% of the posts.

then go over to apneasupport where they have forums for other things besides cpap...

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:30 pm

palerider wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?
.
this is, after all, a cpap support forum, there are other generalized apnea support forums, like, apneasupport.org, that discourage all the things that this board encourages, like being involved in your therapy, knowing what's going on, taking charge of it, etc.
Thanks PR - but I'm a bit confused here.. are you saying apneasupport.org isn't supportive because it suggests/ recommends different ways of being compliant with cpap therapy?

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:34 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:
palerider wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?
.
this is, after all, a cpap support forum, there are other generalized apnea support forums, like, apneasupport.org, that discourage all the things that this board encourages, like being involved in your therapy, knowing what's going on, taking charge of it, etc.
Thanks PR - but I'm a bit confused here.. are you saying apneasupport.org isn't supportive because it suggests/ recommends different ways of being compliant with cpap therapy?
no, I'm not saying that they're less supportive of cpap because they discuss, and support other options to deal with apnea besides cpap, I'm saying apneasupport.org strongly discourages any patient involvement in their own therapy, their only answer is 'consult your Doctor, do what you doctor says" they even banned jedimark (the author of sleepyhead software) sometime back... though I don't know the specifics of the ban.

any post with info on how to get into the settings menu... deleted, that's a complete no no.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:41 pm

ems wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
But doesn't the OP have that right NOT to try cpap and to even refuse it? I haven't been in this forum for very long, but have read posts that talk about 'freedom of speech, etc.' It seems to me that most posters only are allowed 'freedom of speech' without repercussion IF they agree with the mainstream here.

CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?

I think if we want others to listen and respect us, we need to give the same in return.
Excellent post SleepyEyes21!

There is a huge difference between stating our opinions and then "pushing" / "encouraging". But, we've had discussions about this before and nothing has ever changed... and probably never will.
Thanks, ems, and I agree wholeheartedly about 'stating' vs. 'pushing.' Discouraging that not much has changed with past conversations about this issue

Let's hope that more posters will stay long enough to realize that there is a virtual treasure trove of good information on this forum, and some truly awesome and kind-hearted people that will do all they can to support one another in good times and bad.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:44 pm

kteague wrote: This post has all the characteristics of a drive-by "sales pitch"...
- Say enough for the reader to be able to google and find it without giving a link and being obvious
- Dramatic language "last chance" even though all options have not been explored
- Proselytize through appearing to relate to those disgruntled with competitors
- Systematic slaying of the competition in seemingly innocent story form. (oral appliances, Provent, CPAP)
- Discredit those who might speak against it (dentist, doctor)
- Insert negligible adverse experience - just enough to seem real without being a turnoff
- Huckster language of "give it a try" and "what have you got to lose"
- No refund policy language and an implication the purchase price is the trial price "the $ is worth the experiment"
- Why else would one post on a CPAP board when they clearly will not be using CPAP


I happen to be particularly tuned into this sales conversation as I recently attended a focus group for CPAP users and part of the discussion group was critiquing the language that would be most effective to convince a person to try the product, particularly to convert a CPAP user (or non-user) to their alternative solution. I have no problem with the business of making potential customers aware of a product. I do take personal issue with manipulation and trickery. Doesn't set a good tone for getting me to trust your claims about your product. I typically qualify my remarks by leaving wiggle room in case I am wrong. Don't feel the need to do so here. As I said in the focus group, if I get one whiff in the air of manipulation, I'm turned off. This is more than a whiff - it reeks.

Disclaimer: My post has absolutely nothing to do with the viability of the product as a treatment option. I am not qualified to speak to that. My comments are strictly about my perception of the intent of the original post.
yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head.

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by SleepyEyes21 » Mon Sep 01, 2014 12:48 pm

palerider wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
palerider wrote:
SleepyEyes21 wrote:
chunkyfrog wrote:To quote the OP, " . . . I refuse to try cpap." Not even trying! ok, whatever.
I do have a problem with him encouraging others to go down the same path.
CF - aren't a majority of us who DO choose cpap for treatment "encouraging others to go down the same path?" Why is it acceptable for us to push our viewpoints and agendas on this issue but not okay for others to voice a different approach?
.
this is, after all, a cpap support forum, there are other generalized apnea support forums, like, apneasupport.org, that discourage all the things that this board encourages, like being involved in your therapy, knowing what's going on, taking charge of it, etc.
Thanks PR - but I'm a bit confused here.. are you saying apneasupport.org isn't supportive because it suggests/ recommends different ways of being compliant with cpap therapy?
no, I'm not saying that they're less supportive of cpap because they discuss, and support other options to deal with apnea besides cpap, I'm saying apneasupport.org strongly discourages any patient involvement in their own therapy, their only answer is 'consult your Doctor, do what you doctor says" they even banned jedimark (the author of sleepyhead software) sometime back... though I don't know the specifics of the ban.

any post with info on how to get into the settings menu... deleted, that's a complete no no.
K- thanks for the clarification!

On a positive note, at least they are out there giving some adequate info on sleep apnea and cpap treatment, right? At least it might help someone new to cpap therapy with some basics when they have none, so that site has some value, right?

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Re: AveoTSD

Post by palerider » Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:24 pm

SleepyEyes21 wrote:On a positive note, at least they are out there giving some adequate info on sleep apnea and cpap treatment, right? At least it might help someone new to cpap therapy with some basics when they have none, so that site has some value, right?
it has value, yes, especially for apnea issues that aren't cpap related, there are forums for pediatric sleep apnea, and for people wanting to use dental devices, and some other non cpap things, and if all a person needs with their cpap is to be told "get a(nother) sleep test, talk to your doctor", and that person is lucky enough to have a responsive doctor, and competent dme, and the money to visit them, then that's all they need.

but when someone comes in over there and says "my doctor isn't helping" or "I can't afford a(nother) sleep test" or "I'm having so much trouble with the cpap, and my doctor ignores me" then all that they get is crickets.

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Accounts to put on the foe list: dataq1, gearchange, mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They're often post misleading, timewasting stuff.