Don't Buy From Our Host, CPAP.com

Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, you're conflating terms. Was the product "defective"? Or was it damaged at the time of sale? Or was it damaged during shipment?

If the product was damaged during shipment, it's likely the shipper's (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) responsibility to undertake an investigation and compensate you, assuming that shipping insurance coverage was part of the S&H.

If the product was defective (that is, has a latent defect), the retailer's terms of sale state that the customer must contact the manufacturer for warranty repairs. The retailer, in other words, provides no separate warranty or repair.

I can't speak to whether the retailer's policy is fair or not. The answer may depend whether it's normal practice in the DME industry. That being said, it appears that the retailer takes this position because it cannot resell DME that has been opened and/or used, due to health regulation-related concerns. (A good policy, by the way, because I don't want to buy a CPAP that's been used in someone else's house for even a day or two, given my problems with pet dander, mold, etc.) Therefore the retailer defers to the expertise of the manufacturer to determine whether the product is truly defective or whether the buyer is merely having buyer's remorse.

Another possibility is that the retailer sold you a product that it knew to be broken (that is, damaged as opposed to a latent defect). That's certainly possible, but it would be difficult to prove. Therefore, if you're dealing with a product that was damaged during shipment, you're better off working with the shipper, because the shipper will be in a superior position to investigate the claim with the retailer.

Good luck with your issue. Unfortunately finding a solution is not always easy. There are two sides to such issues: The consumer deserves delivery of a working product, but the retailer needs reasonable protection against return of goods that cannot be resold and, in some cases, against fraud, which has become all too prevalent in the US.

Phil587 wrote:

best I can figure, the OP got a machine that may have developed a defect after 2 days of use, and he's not happy that the seller won't set aside the published return policy and do him some favors that he apparently wants.

The unit I purchased new from the seller was defective out of the box. It was bad when it was shipped and still is. I bought new and was shipped a defective unit. In my world, that is the shipper's responsibility to fix -- not mine.

phil (veruca salt) 587 wrote: Used it two nights and the damn thing proved defective.

so, it was defective out of the box, but you used it for two days... why didn't you *say* it was 'defective out of the box' in the first place? perhaps if you'd be a little less of the whiny shit typical yelp customer.... people might pay attention to you. regardless... in "your world" as you put it, how is it the SHIPPERS fault that a brand new, unopened item is defective?

I'd be willing to bet a bag of jelly beans that if cpap.com had opened and tested the unit before shipping it to you, you'd be bitching all up one side and down the other about how you got an opened box unit and demanding a discount.

please tell us just where they've violated their published return policy in their treatment of you? give us some indication that you're not petulantly demanding that they "treat you special" like the pretty pretty princess you think you are.

Phil587 wrote: ... OK, I will order a new machine to use while the defective unit is away since I MUST have a machine for health reasons. CPAP says -- nope, cant do it. Your script calls for just one machine. I say, OK send me one because you have yet to complete the deal because you sent me a defective machine.

They *refused* to send me a machine. ...

Under those circumstances, do what I did. I sent my scrip to another DME and purchased a second machine. When got that one, I took the first back for repairs and Respironics replaced it with a new one.

That's another good reason to have a copy of your prescription - you have flexibility.

Seanster wrote:Unfortunately, from a legal standpoint, you're conflating terms. Was the product "defective"? Or was it damaged at the time of sale? Or was it damaged during shipment?

If the product was damaged during shipment, it's likely the shipper's (UPS, Fed Ex, etc) responsibility to undertake an investigation and compensate you, assuming that shipping insurance coverage was part of the S&H.

If the product was defective (that is, has a latent defect), the retailer's terms of sale state that the customer must contact the manufacturer for warranty repairs. The retailer, in other words, provides no separate warranty or repair.

I can't speak to whether the retailer's policy is fair or not. The answer may depend whether it's normal practice in the DME industry. That being said, it appears that the retailer takes this position because it cannot resell DME that has been opened and/or used, due to health regulation-related concerns. (A good policy, by the way, because I don't want to buy a CPAP that's been used in someone else's house for even a day or two, given my problems with pet dander, mold, etc.) Therefore the retailer defers to the expertise of the manufacturer to determine whether the product is truly defective or whether the buyer is merely having buyer's remorse.

Another possibility is that the retailer sold you a product that it knew to be broken (that is, damaged as opposed to a latent defect). That's certainly possible, but it would be difficult to prove. Therefore, if you're dealing with a product that was damaged during shipment, you're better off working with the shipper, because the shipper will be in a superior position to investigate the claim with the retailer.

Good luck with your issue. Unfortunately finding a solution is not always easy. There are two sides to such issues: The consumer deserves delivery of a working product, but the retailer needs reasonable protection against return of goods that cannot be resold and, in some cases, against fraud, which has become all too prevalent in the US.

What *everybody* seems to be missing or not understanding in this entire conversation is I had AGREED with the return policy, even though it sucks and is not the way a normal business is conducted in this country. What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT. Read, people, read and understand.

Phil

Phil5 87 wrote:What *everybody* seems to be missing or not understanding in this entire conversation is I had AGREED with the return policy, even though it sucks and is not the way a normal business is conducted in this country. What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT.

I read that and think that Johnny will fix that for you. That part didn't make any sense on their part.

Phil5 87 wrote:What *everybody* seems to be missing or not understanding in this entire conversation is I had AGREED with the return policy, even though it sucks and is not the way a normal business is conducted in this country. What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT. Read, people, read and understand.

Phil

My experience watching threads of this nature is that *IF* the customer was treated unfairly, Carolyn & Johnny are quick to make things right. I'm waiting for one of them to come in, evaluate the specific situation and respond accordingly.

I wish the OP had contacted them directly before starting this thread.

Phil5 87 wrote:What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT.

I did notice this part that you mentioned initially and I too was wondering what is going on. I wasn't aware that cpap.com limited a machine purchase to just one machine. That just doesn't sound right to me. I would be wanting to talk to Johnny for clarification.
Also wondering exactly the wording on the RX that would lead an employee to believe that only one machine could be purchased.

Madalot wrote:

Phil5 87 wrote:What *everybody* seems to be missing or not understanding in this entire conversation is I had AGREED with the return policy, even though it sucks and is not the way a normal business is conducted in this country. What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT. Read, people, read and understand.

Phil

My experience watching threads of this nature is that *IF* the customer was treated unfairly, Carolyn & Johnny are quick to make things right. I'm waiting for one of them to come in, evaluate the specific situation and respond accordingly.

I wish the OP had contacted them directly before starting this thread.

I *tried* to contact them immediatly. There was nobody with responsibility in the place.

Phil

palerider wrote:

Phil587 wrote:

best I can figure, the OP got a machine that may have developed a defect after 2 days of use, and he's not happy that the seller won't set aside the published return policy and do him some favors that he apparently wants.

The unit I purchased new from the seller was defective out of the box. It was bad when it was shipped and still is. I bought new and was shipped a defective unit. In my world, that is the shipper's responsibility to fix -- not mine.

phil (veruca salt) 587 wrote: Used it two nights and the damn thing proved defective.

so, it was defective out of the box, but you used it for two days... why didn't you *say* it was 'defective out of the box' in the first place? perhaps if you'd be a little less of the whiny shit typical yelp customer.... people might pay attention to you. regardless... in "your world" as you put it, how is it the SHIPPERS fault that a brand new, unopened item is defective?

I'd be willing to bet a bag of jelly beans that if the seller had opened and tested the unit before shipping it to you, you'd be bitching all up one side and down the other about how you got an opened box unit and demanding a discount.

please tell us just where they've violated their published return policy in their treatment of you? give us some indication that you're not petulantly demanding that they "treat you special" like the pretty pretty princess you think you are.

Idiot. I tried to BUY another unit even to the point of providing my CC number. They *refused* to sell me one to replace the defective unit. Read that again, jerkoff -- I tried to BUY another unit. I never asked for anything special. I stated, "I used the unit for two nights and it proved defective". Later I wrote, "yes, it made the same noise both nights". Do I need to paint you a picture?


Phil

What you don't understand is JDS's point that you could take your RX to another DME and buy one. There might be rules that prevent a DME from selling you a second machine within a time frame.... no one here is going to stop buying from cpap.com on the basis of a whining arrogant twit's rant.... below copied from JDS's post to which you responded. instead of stressing out over the problem, do it his way and you will have a second machine in no time instead of wasting it on this rant:

"I sent my scrip to another DME and purchased a second machine. When got that one, I took the first back for repairs and Respironics replaced it with a new one

That's another good reason to have a copy of your prescription - you have flexibility."

Phil5 87 wrote:

Madalot wrote:

Phil5 87 wrote:What *everybody* seems to be missing or not understanding in this entire conversation is I had AGREED with the return policy, even though it sucks and is not the way a normal business is conducted in this country. What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT. Read, people, read and understand.

Phil

My experience watching threads of this nature is that *IF* the customer was treated unfairly, Carolyn & Johnny are quick to make things right. I'm waiting for one of them to come in, evaluate the specific situation and respond accordingly.

I wish the OP had contacted them directly before starting this thread.

I *tried* to contact them immediatly. There was nobody with responsibility in the place.

Phil

Carolyn & Johnny take Private Messages through this forum. They are usually very quick to respond. If you weren't able to get them on the phone (and I've never heard of anyone that has), the next course should have been to contact them via Private Message. Then, and only then, if they didn't response should you have posted a thread about having an issue and needing help. But even then, I think your demeanor should have been more polite.

Just my 2 cents and MY way of doing business.

Yeah, that sounded kind of weird . . .

library lady wrote:What you don't understand is JDS's point that you could take your RX to another DME and buy one. There might be rules that prevent a DME from selling you a second machine within a time frame.... no one here is going to stop buying from cpap.com on the basis of a whining arrogant twit's rant.... below copied from JDS's post to which you responded. instead of stressing out over the problem, do it his way and you will have a second machine in no time instead of wasting it on this rant:

"I sent my scrip to another DME and purchased a second machine. When got that one, I took the first back for repairs and Respironics replaced it with a new one

That's another good reason to have a copy of your prescription - you have flexibility."

Another very rational and plausible solution.

Pugsy wrote:

Phil5 87 wrote:What I have a problem with is they REFUSED to SELL me another unit so I would have something to use while the first is being repaired. See? I tried my best to BUY ANOTHER UNIT.

I did notice this part that you mentioned initially and I too was wondering what is going on. I wasn't aware that the seller limited a machine purchase to just one machine. That just doesn't sound right to me. I would be wanting to talk to Johnny for clarification.
Also wondering exactly the wording on the RX that would lead an employee to believe that only one machine could be purchased.

I only wanted to buy ONE machine, Pugsy. The problem is the one they sent me is defective so I have still not received a *working* machine, only a defective one. In effect, they have yet to sell me even *one* working machine. Had the owners been present, they probably would have corrected the salesgirl. Unfortunately, they were not there so I had to deal with their agent.

Thanks for your post.

Phil

Phil5 87 wrote:Idiot. I tried to BUY another unit even to the point of providing my CC number. They *refused* to sell me one to replace the defective unit. Read that again, jerkoff -- I tried to BUY another unit. I never asked for anything special. I stated, "I used the unit for two nights and it proved defective". Later I wrote, "yes, it made the same noise both nights". Do I need to paint you a picture?

you're fun.. perhaps if you were a little less overflowing with vitreol and frothed at the mouth a little less, you could make your point clear from the beginning, instead of it taking three pages of you attacking everybody that didn't go "poor baby phil, those cpap people are SO MEAN TO YOU!".

so, the entire problem you have is that whoever it was on the phone didn't sell you a second machine for some reason we have yet to determine, and the owners weren't at your beck and call at that instant... is that the gist of the matter?