Last Night Was First Night

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Tue Jul 09, 2024 7:04 am

robysue1 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2024 10:28 pm

Are you getting any kind of treatment for the depression? If so, is it through your PCP or do you see a psychiatrist or psychologist?
I have been on different depression meds for a while but last year, the one that I had been on for about 10 years just stopped working. I've tried a few different ones this year and was finally able to get a genetic test done. However, the drug that it seems will work for me does not have a generic yet so it is going through the pre-authorization stage right now. It actually has been approved but there's a little more red tape to cut through before I can actually order it. I likely would have held off on starting CPAP until that was done had I known it would be this hard but I've made it this far and I don't think starting again once I get the right med would help.

I have a psychiatrist.

All that being said, last night I took your advice and upped the minimum pressure to 10cm. I think it helped. I remember waking up less and don't recall much tossing and turning. I also feel a little more rested this morning. Maybe not substantially more rested but I'll take any little bit of progress.

Here is last night's chart: https://sleephq.com/public/e0b27a97-7ec ... 95dbdd94ca

I also managed to find the sleep study in my Kaiser app so I will black that stuff out and post it today.

Thanks again, so very much!

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:40 pm

Attached are the first 3 pages of my sleep study.

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Tue Jul 09, 2024 12:44 pm

And here are the final 3

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Wed Jul 10, 2024 6:47 am

Last night was another rough one. https://sleephq.com/public/ac94082e-9af ... 10fe5b55a2
I'm starting to get discouraged again. Going to ask my doctor for a stronger sleeping pill, I'm just nervous about getting hooked and never being able to sleep properly with the cpap on.

I also randomly get paranoid about power outages but I can't afford a big power station. Are there any affordable options to keep the machine running in a brief power outage? (it doesn't even happen here very often so I shouldn't be so worried)

I don't know, if anyone has time to look at my test and charts and has any further ideas of what I could be doing better, let me know. Thank you!

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:42 am

Should I be concerned about these CAs popping up?

https://sleephq.com/public/b78e7295-026 ... 24362fe801

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by vandownbytheriver » Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:13 am

Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:42 am
Should I be concerned about these CAs popping up?

https://sleephq.com/public/b78e7295-026 ... 24362fe801
No. You can try turning down EPR, but they're negligible. It all looks good, you're set.

If you're worried about power, get a computer UPS... they're great for your computer anyway (if you have a desktop), I have an APC XS-1300 upstairs in my bedroom and all my electronics (including alarm clock) are run through it. Just turn off the beep if you don't want to be woken up.

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:37 am

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:13 am
No. You can try turning down EPR, but they're negligible. It all looks good, you're set.

If you're worried about power, get a computer UPS... they're great for your computer anyway (if you have a desktop), I have an APC XS-1300 upstairs in my bedroom and all my electronics (including alarm clock) are run through it. Just turn off the beep if you don't want to be woken up.
Thank you! Any UPS should work?

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robysue1
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by robysue1 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:35 pm

Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 6:42 am
Should I be concerned about these CAs popping up?

https://sleephq.com/public/b78e7295-026 ... 24362fe801
No. You only had 4 of them all night long and at least two of them appear to be (normal sleep transitional) CAs following what looks like probably (normal) arousals, possibly to turn over in bed.

With data like this, you need to focus more on how you well you are sleeping subjectively and whether you are feeling any better during the daytime.

Sometimes when we have a difficult adjustment, it's easy to get over wrapped up in trying to find something objective in the data that might explain why we're not yet feeling as well as we want to---because if there is something objectively "wrong", then we can work on "fixing" it. But sometimes there's just not anything objectively amiss in the xPAP data: The data indicates that the machine is, in fact, doing its job of preventing the vast majority of obstructive events from occurring. And when the sleep is still bad in spite of good data, that means the answer to that puzzle of "bad sleep" is connected to other things.

Because you have a history of both anxiety and depression, it could be that you are dealing with a rather awful so-called "positive" feedback cycle in terms of your on-going problems with daytime fatigue and daytime concentration problems:

... leads to more bad sleep which leads to more daytime tiredness which leads to more depression and/or anxiety which leads to more bad sleep which leads to ...

It doesn't really matter what started the feedback cycle. What matters is finding a way to break the cycle. If a short course of more powerful sleep medication helps you sleep better, that might help break the cycle. If you and your doc manage to tweak the current meds for depression and/or anxiety to find something more effective, that might help break the cycle.

And part of breaking that cycle consists of setting some reasonable short term goals. Accept that there is no magic bullet that is going to fix all your problems where you will suddenly wake up tomorrow (or the next day) bright eyed and bushy tailed with plenty of energy that lasts all day long.

What reasonable short term goals might be is something you might want to talk to the psychiatrist about. I say that because I think that if you can find some ways to manage your constant worrying about xPAP and your sleep, it might be possible to get some higher quality sleep.

I've made this suggestion before: I think a simple sleep log might help you identify whether the quality of your sleep is as bad as it subjectively feels to you. In other words, you need to track for yourself whether you are spending far too much time in bed tossing and turning and worrying about not being asleep. And if you are in fact spending long periods during the night not sleeping then that's an issue that needs to be discussed with both your sleep doc and your psychiatrist because insominia and depression feed off each other.
Joined as robysue on 9/18/10. Forgot my password & the email I used was on a machine that has long since died & gone to computer heaven.

Correct number of posts is 7250 as robysue + what I have as robysue1

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by vandownbytheriver » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:40 pm

Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:37 am
vandownbytheriver wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:13 am
No. You can try turning down EPR, but they're negligible. It all looks good, you're set.

If you're worried about power, get a computer UPS... they're great for your computer anyway (if you have a desktop), I have an APC XS-1300 upstairs in my bedroom and all my electronics (including alarm clock) are run through it. Just turn off the beep if you don't want to be woken up.
Thank you! Any UPS should work?
The bigger it is, the longer you get. My 1300 will power my Ax10 with full humidity for about 2 hours. An Ax10 pulls about 90watts max, it will have to handle that much.

This one will run 330watts for 4.8min... so maybe 15min for an Ax10:

https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Prot ... AZEIU?th=1

That's 80USD. Mine's going for about 180USD (this is the updated model):

https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Prot ... 6FXMM?th=1

The smaller one's fine for brown-outs.

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:58 pm

robysue1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:35 pm
I've made this suggestion before: I think a simple sleep log might help you identify whether the quality of your sleep is as bad as it subjectively feels to you. In other words, you need to track for yourself whether you are spending far too much time in bed tossing and turning and worrying about not being asleep. And if you are in fact spending long periods during the night not sleeping then that's an issue that needs to be discussed with both your sleep doc and your psychiatrist because insominia and depression feed off each other.
I'm going to try this. My doctor did prescribe me a stronger sleep med that I will take as needed and I'm finally approved for the better antidepressant. Hopefully things start to turn around soon.

You are so incredibly helpful and kind. Thank you.

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Iancdub88
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:59 pm

vandownbytheriver wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:40 pm
Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:37 am
vandownbytheriver wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 9:13 am
No. You can try turning down EPR, but they're negligible. It all looks good, you're set.

If you're worried about power, get a computer UPS... they're great for your computer anyway (if you have a desktop), I have an APC XS-1300 upstairs in my bedroom and all my electronics (including alarm clock) are run through it. Just turn off the beep if you don't want to be woken up.
Thank you! Any UPS should work?
The bigger it is, the longer you get. My 1300 will power my Ax10 with full humidity for about 2 hours. An Ax10 pulls about 90watts max, it will have to handle that much.

This one will run 330watts for 4.8min... so maybe 15min for an Ax10:

https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Prot ... AZEIU?th=1

That's 80USD. Mine's going for about 180USD (this is the updated model):

https://www.amazon.com/APC-Battery-Prot ... 6FXMM?th=1

The smaller one's fine for brown-outs.
I think I'll get the one you have when I get paid Monday. Thank you so much!

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ozij
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by ozij » Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:59 pm

Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:58 pm
robysue1 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:35 pm
I've made this suggestion before: I think a simple sleep log might help you identify whether the quality of your sleep is as bad as it subjectively feels to you. In other words, you need to track for yourself whether you are spending far too much time in bed tossing and turning and worrying about not being asleep. And if you are in fact spending long periods during the night not sleeping then that's an issue that needs to be discussed with both your sleep doc and your psychiatrist because insominia and depression feed off each other.
I'm going to try this. My doctor did prescribe me a stronger sleep med that I will take as needed and I'm finally approved for the better antidepressant. Hopefully things start to turn around soon.

You are so incredibly helpful and kind. Thank you.
Effects of Antidepressants on Sleep
Curr Psychiatry Rep. 2017; 19(9): 63.
Published online 2017 Aug 9. doi: 10.1007/s11920-017-0816-4

See if you can get your psychiatrist and your sleep doctor to work together on this issue of the quality of your sleep and your antidepressant medication.

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vandownbytheriver
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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by vandownbytheriver » Thu Jul 11, 2024 10:06 pm

Iancdub88 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 2:59 pm
I think I'll get the one you have when I get paid Monday. Thank you so much!
You're quite welcome! Just remember to turn off the beep warning, hard to sleep through that! The fan does come on after a few seconds but not that bad. APC is a good brand.

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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by Iancdub88 » Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:10 am

ozij wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:59 pm
See if you can get your psychiatrist and your sleep doctor to work together on this issue of the quality of your sleep and your antidepressant medication.
I will, thank you.

Here's last night's. https://sleephq.com/public/2bd395d1-055 ... 7da83bc28b

I definitely remember being awake too often.

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Re: Last Night Was First Night

Post by ozij » Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:42 am

Iancdub88 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2024 9:10 am
ozij wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2024 8:59 pm
See if you can get your psychiatrist and your sleep doctor to work together on this issue of the quality of your sleep and your antidepressant medication.
I will, thank you.

Here's last night's. https://sleephq.com/public/2bd395d1-055 ... 7da83bc28b

I definitely remember being awake too often.
Some people get their sleep disturbed by pressure changes, and do better when their pressure is fixed.
I'm one of them.
Looking at you charts, I think it's worth your while to try a fixed pressure at 10.4 (you're spending half you time there or above it as it is).
If 10.4 it to dramatic to start with, do 10.2 for a few days, then 10.4 and maybe even a bit more.
The reason i suggest you aim for a bit higher is that you still have residual snores, and more importantly, flow limitation that seem to appear when ever the machine is going down to 10.
On second thouth, since flow limitations can be sleep disruptors too a - so it may be a moot point whether its the flow limited breathing or the pressure changes waking you up.
At any rate, whether fixed pressure or APAP, you may be sleeping better if the fixed or minimum pressure is higher than 10.

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