Replace apap with a CPAP?

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bobotech
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Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by bobotech » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm

My wife has a Resvent Ibreeze 20 set in apap mode. She has to return it to the company leasing it to her because she honestly is bad about keeping the mask on so she isn't using it as much as she should be.

So we are going to purchase a replacement machine for her but I'm finding out that mainly cpaps or bipaps are in the secondary market. Is it possible to replace her apap with a CPAP or is that not advised?

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SleepGeek
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by SleepGeek » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:47 pm

W/o more info or Oscar charts this is really a guessing game.

IMHO, I would avoid a plain ol cpap.
Choose either an APAP or a Bipap both which can be set to cpap in the unlikely event that is needed. Both are much easier to adapt to but choose a brand that is compatible with Oscar so you can get help here.

Resmed Autoset is a fav cpap here. Aircurve will be a BiPap model.
I don't have a link right now for the other brands that Oscar is used with but get a resmed and you will get help here.
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bobotech
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by bobotech » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:00 pm

I honestly don't have much more info. I was just going to buy a used machine like hers and duplicate the same settings using the clinical mode. Since hers is on apap mode, I was going to set the same settings on the replacement machine.

I found the same machine as hers locally used but the seller is asking 350 for it but that seems kind of high for it considering it's a Chinese machine. We were trying to do this on a budget.

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Respirator99
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Respirator99 » Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:29 pm

Correct terminology is important. CPAP stands for continuous positive airway pressure, so strictly speaking, all these machines are CPAPs. It's possible that what you see advertised as CPAPs are really auto-titrating machines (APAP). You need to check each one. Likewise, there are many different bilevel devices, often optimised for a particular condition. While most can be set up to emulate an APAP, that's not always a given.

Before committing to a purchase, get the exact make and model name of the machine you're considering and post here for advice.
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Janknitz
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Janknitz » Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:58 pm

If she is "bad about keeping the mask on", the settings aren't working for her. Being able to see the efficacy data and adjust the settings will help her use it more comfortably. The machine doesn't work if the mask isn't on.

An APAP can be set with a fixed pressure (CPAP mode) if that is better for her. But a CPAP always has a fixed pressure, and she may need APAP to get optimal therapy. So no, a CPAP may not be able to be set optimally for her. That's why you're more likely to find them on the secondary market. Get an APAP.

You need one where the efficacy data can be accessed, so that the settings can be adjusted to best meet your wife's needs. Oscar and Sleep Headquarters can show efficacy data on ResMeds and Philips Respironics. I'm not sure if these open source programs work with other brands--someone here can answer that question.
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Respirator99
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Respirator99 » Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:45 pm

Janknitz wrote:
Wed Mar 08, 2023 1:58 pm
...
You need one where the efficacy data can be accessed, so that the settings can be adjusted to best meet your wife's needs. Oscar and Sleep Headquarters can show efficacy data on ResMeds and Philips Respironics. I'm not sure if these open source programs work with other brands--someone here can answer that question.
SleepHQ supports most Resmed and Philips machines, but I don't think it supports the DS2 as yet. Support for other machines is promised but not yet available.

Here is the list of machines supported by Oscar: http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... d_machines
* Download Oscar
* Oscar help
* An alternative to Oscar - try SleepHQ

I have no medical training or qualifications. Take my advice for what it's worth.

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chunkyfrog
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by chunkyfrog » Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:12 pm

Too many people equate cost with the physical size of an item.
Many people will not even blink at spending way more for a mattress than
they spent on their cpap machine.
Think about it this way.
A good mattress will help you sleep.
The right cpap can increase your odds of waking up.

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Lane101
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Lane101 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:09 pm

bobotech wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm
My wife has a Resvent Ibreeze 20 set in apap mode. She has to return it to the company leasing it to her because she honestly is bad about keeping the mask on so she isn't using it as much as she should be.

So we are going to purchase a replacement machine for her but I'm finding out that mainly cpaps or bipaps are in the secondary market. Is it possible to replace her apap with a CPAP or is that not advised?
First, you should get advice from your doctor regarding what specifically makes the most sense for your wife from a treatment perspective. I did move from APAP to CPAP for 18 months as a result of the Philips recall with approval from my sleep doctor as follows:
1) I had been on CPAP only for years through 2019. Moved to APAP in January 2020 on the advice of my sleep doctor with a new Dreamstation 1 machine. My CPAP was a year old Devilbiss Intellipap that I kept as a backup. Using the new Dreamstation data we determined my optimal pressure range. As a baseline we initially set it as a CPAP on my old prescription pressure of 10cm. Surprisingly the results on APAP were only slightly better those on CPAP with AHI's of 0.5 to 1.0 for the former and 1.0 to 2.0 on the latter. Anything less than an AHI of 5.0 is considered good.

2) When the Philips recall was announced I moved back to my lightly used Devilbiss CPAP at 10 cm of pressure with my doctors approval. Prior to switching back a quick two night retest with the Dreamstation on CPAP reconfirmed that this was still a successful therapy for my. Note that I'd become used to the flex exhale relief on the Dreamstation so it took a couple of nights to get used to the Devilbiss CPAP that does not have this.

3) I've since moved back to APAP early this year once I received my replacement DS1 units from Philips. As a postscript I went back to CPAP temporarily at a 9 cm pressure with a slow ramp from 5cm two weeks ago due to a non-Covid respiratory infection. The APAP pressure variability was causing me to cough more at night interrupting my sleep. At 9 cm my AHI is still under 2.0 versus under 1.0 though I'm better off as I now sleep through the night with a consistent pressure. Also set the humidity higher and maxed out the flex relief. At less than 9cm of pressure my AHI starts to go up too much. I expect to be back to APAP shortly.

The bottom line is that before switching your wife needs to work with her doctor to evaluate whether or a return to CPAP will be effective for her and if so determine the best therapy pressure. Good chance CPAP will be less effective than APAP and you doctor will need to determine if CPAP is good enough. Also an older CPAP only may not have desired comfort features like flex relief and/or heated hoses (I don't use this myself). This may make it more challenging for your wife to keep her mask on.

Be careful of any older units as these could be subject to foam deterioration even if not subject to a recall. In 2019 I tossed an old Goodknight 420G unit that was well over a decade old and curious about a bad smell found the foam had turned to sticky mush in similar fashion to some recalled Philips units. Note that I never use any ozone cleaners on my machine.

Not sure what you budget is but CPAP.com is advertising new APAP units in the $400 (Apex Auto)-500 (Resmed AirSense 10) dollar range per their latest marketing email.

Lane101
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Lane101 » Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:15 pm

bobotech wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 10:00 pm
I honestly don't have much more info. I was just going to buy a used machine like hers and duplicate the same settings using the clinical mode. Since hers is on apap mode, I was going to set the same settings on the replacement machine.

I found the same machine as hers locally used but the seller is asking 350 for it but that seems kind of high for it considering it's a Chinese machine. We were trying to do this on a budget.
That is high, go to cpap.com. Per my post above they have brand new APAP machines for $400 - 500 that sound like they could be close enough to your budget range given that $350 could work for you.

bobotech
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by bobotech » Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:13 pm

Lane101 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:09 pm
bobotech wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm
My wife has a Resvent Ibreeze 20 set in apap mode. She has to return it to the company leasing it to her because she honestly is bad about keeping the mask on so she isn't using it as much as she should be.

So we are going to purchase a replacement machine for her but I'm finding out that mainly cpaps or bipaps are in the secondary market. Is it possible to replace her apap with a CPAP or is that not advised?
First, you should get advice from your doctor regarding what specifically makes the most sense for your wife from a treatment perspective. I did move from APAP to CPAP for 18 months as a result of the Philips recall with approval from my sleep doctor as follows:
1) I had been on CPAP only for years through 2019. Moved to APAP in January 2020 on the advice of my sleep doctor with a new Dreamstation 1 machine. My CPAP was a year old Devilbiss Intellipap that I kept as a backup. Using the new Dreamstation data we determined my optimal pressure range. As a baseline we initially set it as a CPAP on my old prescription pressure of 10cm. Surprisingly the results on APAP were only slightly better those on CPAP with AHI's of 0.5 to 1.0 for the former and 1.0 to 2.0 on the latter. Anything less than an AHI of 5.0 is considered good.

2) When the Philips recall was announced I moved back to my lightly used Devilbiss CPAP at 10 cm of pressure with my doctors approval. Prior to switching back a quick two night retest with the Dreamstation on CPAP reconfirmed that this was still a successful therapy for my. Note that I'd become used to the flex exhale relief on the Dreamstation so it took a couple of nights to get used to the Devilbiss CPAP that does not have this.

3) I've since moved back to APAP early this year once I received my replacement DS1 units from Philips. As a postscript I went back to CPAP temporarily at a 9 cm pressure with a slow ramp from 5cm two weeks ago due to a non-Covid respiratory infection. The APAP pressure variability was causing me to cough more at night interrupting my sleep. At 9 cm my AHI is still under 2.0 versus under 1.0 though I'm better off as I now sleep through the night with a consistent pressure. Also set the humidity higher and maxed out the flex relief. At less than 9cm of pressure my AHI starts to go up too much. I expect to be back to APAP shortly.

The bottom line is that before switching your wife needs to work with her doctor to evaluate whether or a return to CPAP will be effective for her and if so determine the best therapy pressure. Good chance CPAP will be less effective than APAP and you doctor will need to determine if CPAP is good enough. Also an older CPAP only may not have desired comfort features like flex relief and/or heated hoses (I don't use this myself). This may make it more challenging for your wife to keep her mask on.

Be careful of any older units as these could be subject to foam deterioration even if not subject to a recall. In 2019 I tossed an old Goodknight 420G unit that was well over a decade old and curious about a bad smell found the foam had turned to sticky mush in similar fashion to some recalled Philips units. Note that I never use any ozone cleaners on my machine.

Not sure what you budget is but CPAP.com is advertising new APAP units in the $400 (Apex Auto)-500 (Resmed AirSense 10) dollar range per their latest marketing email.
Thank you for the info. We actually bought a very nice Resmed Airsense 10 and I just cloned the previous machine's settings to the Airsense 10. Works great.

bobotech
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by bobotech » Mon Mar 27, 2023 7:16 pm

Lane101 wrote:
Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:15 pm
.That is high, go to cpap.com. Per my post above they have brand new APAP machines for $400 - 500 that sound like they could be close enough to your budget range given that $350 could work for you.
My wife and I found a beautiful condition Airsense 10 for $100 and she bought a new heated hose for it from Amazon and I think she paid 40 for the hose. I cloned the settings from the old machine to the new machine retaining the Autoset settings.

Oughtsix
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Re: Replace apap with a CPAP?

Post by Oughtsix » Mon Mar 27, 2023 11:51 pm

bobotech wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:28 pm
My wife has a Resvent Ibreeze 20 set in apap mode. She has to return it to the company leasing it to her because she honestly is bad about keeping the mask on so she isn't using it as much as she should be.

So we are going to purchase a replacement machine for her but I'm finding out that mainly cpaps or bipaps are in the secondary market. Is it possible to replace her apap with a CPAP or is that not advised?
Most machines on the secondary market are APAP's (Auto CPAP's). Only the cheaper low end machines don't support auto mode. I would look for one of the Philips recall replacement CPAPS (The "DreamStation" replacements are all APAP). They should be cheap due to there high availability.

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