Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
dataq1
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by dataq1 » Wed Jan 04, 2023 10:22 am

25YearsOnCPAP wrote:
Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:36 am
I don't know. Will get report of 30-day heart monitor. My SmartWatch identified A Fib multiple times. Could SmartWatch misidentify PVC for A Fib? Maybe. SmartWatch also identified "Unknown arrhythmia" several times.
The reason I posted that graphic was that AFIB is most often associated with chaotic rapidly changing heart rate, rather than a bradycardia.
Personally, I don't trust any any of the consumer optical devices to distinguish between arrhythmias.

That said, my cardiologist considers the Kardia EKG device (particularly the six lead device) in high regard for a consumer device, particularly if you know something about reading EKGs.
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25YearsOnCPAP
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by 25YearsOnCPAP » Wed Jan 04, 2023 9:26 pm

The FDA has approved algorithms for a number of SmartWatches. My confidence in FDA post-covid isn't as high as before but government experts feel they have benefit to public. False negative much more potential harm with a person ignoring signs of arrhythmia and not seeking cardiology consult. False positve not necessarily bad if it gets a high-risk person to cardiologist.

A number of cardiologists from prestigious University Medical Centers (Stanford, Cleveland Clinic, Harvard, Mayo Clinic) have YouTube videos recommending SmartWatches for people at higher risk for A Fib. Only 2% of Americans have A Fib in any given year so not a high volume issue.

Published Scientific Analysis have demonstrated "non-12-lead ECG ... offered high diagnostic accuracies for AF."
"Our search resulted in 16 studies using either non-12-lead ECG or PPG for detecting AF, comprising 3217 participants and 7623 assessments. The pooled estimates of sensitivity, specificity, PLR, NLR, and diagnostic odds ratio for the detection of AF were 89.7% (95% CI 83.2%-93.9%), 95.7% (95% CI 92.0%-97.7%), 20.64 (95% CI 10.10-42.15), 0.11 (95% CI 0.06-0.19), and 224.75 (95% CI 70.10-720.56), respectively, for the automatic interpretation of non-12-lead ECG measurements."

I am not sure if this was single lead or 6-lead. That is great for screening and early detection. "Diagnostic Accuracy of Ambulatory Devices in Detecting Atrial Fibrillation: Systematic Review and Meta-analysis" Tien Yun Yang et al. JMIR Mhealth Uhealth. 2021. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33835039/

Not many papers published on SmartWatch accuracy even though Apple has been out almost 5 years. I suspect nobody wants to "validate" so Apple can benefit commercially. Apple and other SmartWatch brands will need to do their own validation or pay big money for researchers to do it.

The algorithm isn't that complicated. Only need to measure milliseconds between R wave of QRS complexes to find irregularity and detect absense of P wave. That's not rocket science. One-lead ECG is sufficient as all other leads will show same conduction issue from different perspective. In A Fib, the other leads don't add much additional information unless you want to detect NSTEMI or Tachybrady Syndrome associated with A Fib.

A Fib from slow heart rate becomes more common in people as they age. And is just as deadly as fast A Fib. Particularly in people needing pacemaker, #1 reason for implanting pacemaker.

A Fib found on sleep study is less worrisome as CPAP generally "cures" this. No need to start anticoagulants if good nighttime CPAP prevents A Fib.

Another interesting paper of UK patients with self-monitoring data: "Patient-generated cardiovascular data were described in 185/1373 (13.5%) clinic letters overall, with the proportion doubling following onset of the first Covid-19 lockdown in England, from 8.3% to 16.6% (p < 0.001). In 127/185 (69%) cases self-monitored data were found to: provide or facilitate cardiac diagnoses (34/127); assist management of previously diagnosed cardiac conditions (55/127); be deployed for cardiovascular prevention (16/127); or be recommended for heart rhythm evaluation (10/127). In 58/185 (31%) cases clinicians did not put the self-monitored data to any evident use and in 12/185 (6.5%) cases patient-generated data prompted an unnecessary referral."
"Patient-initiated cardiovascular monitoring with commercially available devices: How useful is it in a cardiology outpatient setting? Mixed methods, observational study" Christine A'Court et al. BMC Cardiovasc Disord. 2022. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36175861/

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25YearsOnCPAP
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by 25YearsOnCPAP » Thu Jan 05, 2023 12:29 pm

Another Bad Night. Lowest SpO2 80% with AHI less than 1.0.
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lynninnj
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by lynninnj » Thu Jan 05, 2023 2:02 pm

Apple watches have been out several years but single lead ECG didn’t start until version 7 about a year ago with updated ios.

There’s probably a liability issue and the reason why it says it doesn’t detect heart attack etc.

Unfortunately/fortunately when I feel any odd heartbeats I usually open the ecg app right up and by the time I do a 30 ecg test the abnormal heartbeats have stopped.

Sorry that I can’t answer your question but wanted to throw that out there to help clear some things up.

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Tec5
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by Tec5 » Thu Jan 05, 2023 3:18 pm

[quote}A Fib found on sleep study is less worrisome as CPAP generally "cures" this.[/quote]

Atrial fibrillation is generally cured with CPAP ???

Would you like to expand on that assertion?
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25YearsOnCPAP
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by 25YearsOnCPAP » Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:11 pm

Got my records from cardiologist today.

30-day Holter Monitor shows Ventricular Tachycardardia with couplet PVCs on events I triggered.

Total time in Tachycardia = 9 hrs 5 min
Total time in bradycardia = 12 hrs 45 min

So my Samsung Watch is reporting A Fib when I have V Tach with PVCs.

I think that is biggest clue to my desats during sleep (bradycardia). Unfortunately, don't have pulse ox data with Holter Monitor. So I have ordered new pulse oximeter to monitor SpO2 and put into OSCAR to show my sleep doctor. I do not have apnea episodes causing desats with AHI less than 1.0.

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25YearsOnCPAP
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by 25YearsOnCPAP » Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:25 pm

CPAP-treated OSA with A Fib:

Impact of CPAP on the Atrial Fibrillation Substrate in Obstructive Sleep Apnea: The SLEEP-AF Study, Chrishan J Nalliah et al. JACC Clin Electrophysiol. 2022 Jul. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35863812/)
"CPAP therapy results in reversal of atrial remodeling in AF and provides mechanistic evidence advocating for management of OSA in AF."

Cardiac effects of CPAP treatment in patients with obstructive sleep apnea and atrial fibrillation, Asmaa M Abumuamar et al. J Interv Card Electrophysiol. 2019 Apr.
(https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30415352/)
"One hundred patients (70% males) with AF were included in the final analysis. OSA was diagnosed in 85% of patients. There is a significant decrease in atrial and ventricular ectopy count/24 h in patients with AF and OSA at 3 and 6 months of CPAP treatment compared to baseline"

CPAP prevents A Fib and reverses atrial remodeling from A Fib.

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25YearsOnCPAP
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Re: Serious issues after 25 years of CPAP

Post by 25YearsOnCPAP » Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:47 pm

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/results/NCT03335800
Apple Watch Heart Study
Sponsor: Apple, Inc
Collaborator: Stanford University
Began November 29, 2017
First results published: March 30, 2020
Total participants: 419,927
Mean age: 44 years (sd 13 years)
Female 177087  42.2%
Male 238700  56.8%
Other 396   0.1%
Not Reported 3114   0.7%

Received Irregular Pulse Notification: 2161
Received ECG Patch for 7-day monitoring: 658
Returned ECG Patchcfor analysis: 396

OUTCOME:
Atrial Fibrilation * 40/419927 (0.01%)
Atrial Flutter * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Chest Pain * 3/419927 (0.00%)
Coronary Artery Disease * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Death * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Increased frequency of Premature Ventricular Contractions (PVC) * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Left bundle branch block * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Mitral regurgitation * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Mitral Valve Disease * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Myocardial Infarction * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Palpitations * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Shortness of Breath * 1/419927 (0.00%)
Syncope * 3/419927 (0.00%)

The largest criticism of the study are that participants self-selected to participate, owned Apple Watch and IPhone. Owning Apple Watch and IPhone likely associated with affluence and younger age. Only 6% of participants age 65 and over, the group most at risk for AF. So out of 400k+ people, the Watch detected ONLY 40 cases of AF. 0.1% of likely indicence of 2% of US population.

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