Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
litetrek
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Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by litetrek » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:51 pm

I've been using a Fischer-Paykel 432 full face mask for 20 years and I like it. However, even with new headgear and a new seal it leaks a lot. The intentional leak rate is high and my total leak rate is usually about double the intentional leak rate. I have a full beard (like Santa Claus) so even a new seal probably doesn't seal that well.

I have been working out the details of running my cpap entirely off a battery so I can backpack and/or boondock in an RV off grid. I think I can dramatically extend how long I can go with a given battery by better managing the mask leaks. So I'm exploring the possibility of a new mask and what might work better.

How do people go about the process of trying different masks without spending a fortune? Any ideas and suggestions you have may save me some significant cash.

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Pugsy
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by Pugsy » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:09 pm

Masks are expensive and there's no way around that fact but you can limit your out of pocket costs by buying from a supplier that has a generous mask return policy.
Unfortunately DMEs don't have much of a return policy even though they could if they wanted to because all mask manufacturers have a 30 day return policy on all their masks. DMEs wouldn't have to lose money letting people try different masks if they were willing to do a bit of extra paperwork.

Anyway....look at the masks that cpap.com has available. They all come with free return insurance and if you hate it you can send it back (some time limitations do apply so be sure and read the return policy) and you can return the unwanted mask and get a full refund or apply that money to another mask to try with again the free return insurance. You will need to have a RX on file at cpap.com to buy a full complete mask package though.

You still have to buy the first mask out of pocket but further experiments can limit the overall out of pocket costs by making use of the free return policy.

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litetrek
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by litetrek » Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:39 pm

Thanks. Are there any types of masks that have a lower leak rate than others?

clownbell
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by clownbell » Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:05 pm

The NIH has an article at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301251/ which concludes that nasal masks or nasal pillows should be the first choice.

Nasal pillows have a smaller area to seal than FFMs. Since nasal pillows only need to seal around the nostrils, there is no issue regarding a beard. Now if your moustache would interfere with a nasal pillow seal, that's another issue.

The P10 pillow mask has many devoted users and its seal area is small.
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litetrek
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by litetrek » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:03 am

clownbell wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:05 pm
The NIH has an article at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301251/ which concludes that nasal masks or nasal pillows should be the first choice.

Nasal pillows have a smaller area to seal than FFMs. Since nasal pillows only need to seal around the nostrils, there is no issue regarding a beard. Now if your moustache would interfere with a nasal pillow seal, that's another issue.

The P10 pillow mask has many devoted users and its seal area is small.
Thanks. Thats a great paper and great recommendation from you for a nasal pillow. A nasal pillow is what i had in mind when considering switching mask types since as you say the seal area is much smaller. Apparently a nasal mask didn't work so well for me 20 years ago when I had my sleep study but I'm sure they have improved and I'm now used to having something strapped to my head while I'm sleeping so the outcome may be better now.

I'm not sure if my moustache would interfere with the seal or not. Is there a way to determine that without actually buying the P10?

lynninnj
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by lynninnj » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:13 am

litetrek wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:03 am
clownbell wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:05 pm
The NIH has an article at https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301251/ which concludes that nasal masks or nasal pillows should be the first choice.

Nasal pillows have a smaller area to seal than FFMs. Since nasal pillows only need to seal around the nostrils, there is no issue regarding a beard. Now if your moustache would interfere with a nasal pillow seal, that's another issue.

The P10 pillow mask has many devoted users and its seal area is small.
Thanks. Thats a great paper and great recommendation from you for a nasal pillow. A nasal pillow is what i had in mind when considering switching mask types since as you say the seal area is much smaller. Apparently a nasal mask didn't work so well for me 20 years ago when I had my sleep study but I'm sure they have improved and I'm now used to having something strapped to my head while I'm sleeping so the outcome may be better now.

I'm not sure if my moustache would interfere with the seal or not. Is there a way to determine that without actually buying the P10?
This video explains the Bleep system. 1:50 secs or so into it he describes how he shaves his mustache down a bit under the nose. The rest is informative also as it is a system you might like. They are improving the Bleep system to get rid of the fiddly hose connection and using magnets instead but not sure when that product will finally be available. https://youtu.be/L-pRVlAo6Ic

Me, personally, I love love my N30 mask but the P10 might be better with a mustache or if you move around a lot when you sleep. I have tried it and it isn't bad but the N30 feels better on my nose. I also find that compared to any other masks (bleep included) I get the best sleep with the N30 so far. The same rules probably apply regarding the P10 and N30 in that if you shave the mustache down just a bit you will get a better seal.

Whatever you are thinking of using there are a few "review videos" available of various masks and it is recommended that you check youtube for that as well.

HTH

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litetrek
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by litetrek » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:29 am

lynninnj wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:13 am

This video explains the Bleep system. 1:50 secs or so into it he describes how he shaves his mustache down a bit under the nose. The rest is informative also as it is a system you might like. They are improving the Bleep system to get rid of the fiddly hose connection and using magnets instead but not sure when that product will finally be available. https://youtu.be/L-pRVlAo6Ic

Me, personally, I love love my N30 mask but the P10 might be better with a mustache or if you move around a lot when you sleep. I have tried it and it isn't bad but the N30 feels better on my nose. I also find that compared to any other masks (bleep included) I get the best sleep with the N30 so far. The same rules probably apply regarding the P10 and N30 in that if you shave the mustache down just a bit you will get a better seal.

Whatever you are thinking of using there are a few "review videos" available of various masks and it is recommended that you check youtube for that as well.

HTH
Thanks. I'll check it out.

bierhere
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by bierhere » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:04 pm

CPAP.com has a 30 days return policy on masks. https://www.cpap.com/returns#30-day-ris ... ask-policy Not sure whether others have it. I've never tried to use it, so I don't know how real/how many you could try.

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litetrek
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by litetrek » Sat Oct 01, 2022 2:14 pm

bierhere wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:04 pm
CPAP.com has a 30 days return policy on masks. https://www.cpap.com/returns#30-day-ris ... ask-policy Not sure whether others have it. I've never tried to use it, so I don't know how real/how many you could try.
Thanks. I appreciate it.

Oughtsix
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Re: Recommended approach to trying new masks - pls help

Post by Oughtsix » Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:55 am

When I started using a CPAP, also about 20 years ago, there were no nasal pads available so I used the nasal mask I got from the DME. After about 10 years I tried a nasal pad and will never go back to a mask. I have tried several nasal pads, all of which are better than a nasal mask, and settled on the P10 nasal pad. For me it is the most comfortable but a new pad takes a few nights to break in and conform to the bottom of my nose. When I get a new pad I will usually use it for a half a night until is starts to get uncomfortable then switch back to the old one. After a few nights of this the pad no longer has pressure points that cause rubbing sores on my nose. It takes about 6 months for a nasal pad to get so flimsy that it needs replacing... for me.

I use my CPAP while camping and have done so for many years. The biggest thing I have found is to turn off the heater in the humidifier and the warming coil in the hose. I still put water in the reservoir but no heat as the heater uses a healthy amount of battery power.

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