Central Apnea-Is It Normal To Stop Breathing More Than 30 Minutes At a Time?

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Thu May 26, 2022 10:24 pm

I've been following this thread but I can not find "what Pugsy said" in this thread.
Could you please link to what you are referring ?

My post is up there somewhere.

I asked people to get back on topic and quit the snarky snide remarks and told the OP that IMO his question would be better asked of his doctor which apparently now we are told that he has had that chat with his doctor so to me that is the end of it.

I am seeing a dead horse here and see no sense in beating it any further. I am fairly certain that anything I might say further would go in one eyeball and out the other.

Thanks Pugsy,
I saw those two posts earlier, but neither seemed to be imparting some specific wisdom that @julie might have been referencing.
Not dismissing your admonition to stay on topic, avoid snide and snark, and consult your medical professional (all of which are global common sense reminders) I thought @julie was citing some other specific (“EXPERT”) ASV related advice that I just couldn’t find in this thread.

I do have a request for clarification on one of the tangents that was brought up earlier in this thread - should I raise that within this thread ( but it’s not directly related to the original question) or start a new topic?

Thanks.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 6:54 am

Thanks Pugsy,
I saw those two posts earlier, but neither seemed to be imparting some specific wisdom that @julie might have been referencing.
Not dismissing your admonition to stay on topic, avoid snide and snark, and consult your medical professional (all of which are global common sense reminders) I thought @julie was citing some other specific (“EXPERT”) ASV related advice that I just couldn’t find in this thread.

I do have a request for clarification on one of the tangents that was brought up earlier in this thread - should I raise that within this thread ( but it’s not directly related to the original question) or start a new topic?

Thanks.

I didn't offer specific advice or thoughts because what I would have said had already been said. I see no sense in redundancy. My really only thought from the beginning was that this discussion was best had with someone's doctor and not armchair quarterback doctors here. It's just too complicated and I got the sense that what I would say would just pour more gasoline on the fire here and you know how I feel about fires.

Who brought up the tangent comment that you want clarification on? What was the comment? I will try to figure out if it would be better to leave it here or start a new topic.

Pugsy,
OPPS, it wasn't in this thread but another ASV thread viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... years.html
and the tangent to that thread was regarding flow rate morphology that launched in
viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... years.html and began a with the comment about flow rate morphology, with follow up from a couple of folks. (but none that addressed the clarification I was looking for)

Sorry for injecting my question question to you (tag on to the thread or start a new topic) on morphology.
As soon as I get some direction for you I'll delete this from this thread.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 9:04 am

Pugsy,
OPPS, it wasn't in this thread but another ASV thread viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... years.html
and the tangent to that thread was regarding flow rate morphology that launched in
viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... years.html and began a with the comment about flow rate morphology, with follow up from a couple of folks. (but none that addressed the clarification I was looking for)

Sorry for injecting my question question to you (tag on to the thread or start a new topic) on morphology.
As soon as I get some direction for you I'll delete this from this thread.

You won't be able to delete any of your posts if someone (including me) makes a post after your post.
It's the way the forum software works....you will see the delete X button until someone makes a post after you do then you will no longer see it.
Now if the person(s) who posts after you post come in and delete their posts to the point your post is the last post in the thread then your delete button will be available to you.

But I can delete anyone's post at anytime. I will come back here later and clean things up.

As for your question about clarification on a question you had about something said in that thread that was unclear for you.
I say ask for clarification in that thread first before starting a new thread. Rubicon was following that thread a bit and if it's a technical question about flow rate he really is our resident expert. Now he often is brisk...uses rough language...often will answer a question with a question but he does know this stuff inside and out. He is really a professional in this area so you have to be prepared to have patience.
Used to drive me crazy when I would ask a question and all I got was another question. I know what he was trying to do though...he was trying to get me to think and learn for myself instead of spoon feeding me an answer. It' is just the way he is.

So since you have even asked your question in that thread...give it a shot in that thread for now. Your post will bring it back to top of main page and people will see it.

Now I will be brutally honest here..and it's about something I told you a long time ago. You have alienated a lot of people here and you may have alienated the very person who could answer your questions. When you piss them off they essentially say F....you and won't answer even if they know the answer.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 9:04 am

(but none that addressed the clarification I was looking for)

Clarification to what?

IMO everything in that thread was clarified.

1. ASV Mode was being used for something that it was not intended;

2. Periodically a feedback loop was created following an inappropriate ASV attack;

3. The feedback loop continued until another disturbance broke the cycle;

4. The feedback loop was not totally involuntary as the respirations were patient initiated;

5. The insinuation that ResMed ASV is a POS because it doesn't identify patient-triggered breaths is stupid. It's only backup rate is 15 so if it ain't doing that they're not machine-triggered breaths;

6. That said, I always thought it would be a good idea to identify ASV attacks in SkyLab view to get an idea what/when it's doing stuff;

7. To expect ASV to successfully attack UARS flow limitations with a parameter as coarse as Minute Ventilation is IMO wishful thinking;

8. In fact, the machine attacks were generated by ASV Auto, not ASV per se, so anything using PaceWave would done the same thing without the drama.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 9:27 am

Now I will be brutally honest here..and it's about something I told you a long time ago. You have alienated a lot of people here and you may have alienated the very person who could answer your questions. When you piss them off they essentially say F....you and won't answer even if they know the answer.

Now that is really off-topic (to this thread).
You say I have alienated a lot of people...... but I'm failing to see how or what I might have done to cause that alienation.
I really have tried to be polite, avoided name-calling and the like, so I don't know how I've alienated a lot of people.
But this brutal honesty, is something that is perhaps better dealt with in a private message, where you can be really specific and Identify participants and how I've offended all these people.

I see that Rubicon has already tried to respond to my request for clarification on flow rate morphology, unfortunately none of what he took time to write addresses the issue that I wanted to discuss.

So I'll take your advice and add to the correct thread the issue I'd like clarified.

Thank you

You've been here for 17 years and your question is "what's a normal breath look like?"

Then you wonder why

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 12:44 pm

You say I have alienated a lot of people...... but I'm failing to see how or what I might have done to cause that alienation.

Why do I bother...

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 2:28 pm

See viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... 5#p1412422

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 4:11 pm

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 2:28 pm

See viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... 5#p1412422

So listen.

You realize that in order to have made the above comment, I must have read that thread?

It must be me.

Somebody must have plugged the electroshock machine into the 220 outlet and toasted my last remaining dozen neurons.

How I long for the days of TalkAboutSleep.

Where's H.G. Wells when you need him?

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 4:22 pm

Where's H.G. Wells

Googled him. Wikipedia says he's dead.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 4:22 pm

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 4:11 pm

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 2:28 pm

See viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... 5#p1412422

So listen.

You realize that in order to have made the above comment, I must have read that thread?

It must be me.

Somebody must have plugged the electroshock machine into the 220 outlet and toasted my last remaining dozen neurons.

How I long for the days of TalkAboutSleep.

Where's H.G. Wells when you need him?

I am trying, at Pugsy's suggestion, to move this request for clarification to the thread that originated the issue.
That thread is viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... 5#p1412422 and my request for clarification is found at
viewtopic/t184231/Respiratory-Rate-of-7 ... 5#p1412422

Beyond that I've no idea what HG Wells, TalkAboutSleep, or electroshock machines has to do with the normality of 30 minute breathing cessations.

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 8:50 pm

... the normality of 30 minute breathing cessations.

Wouldn't that be "the abnormality of 30 minute breathing cessations"?

At any rate, that was never the case.

AAMOF, there are ~270 breaths in the supposed "cessation" as the thread title is very misleading.

If it had been "Can Your Knock Out Your Respiratory Drive If You Are Arbitrarily Wingin' The Dials Around?" then there would have been one reply and all this angst would have been avoided.

Rubicon wrote: ↑

Sat May 28, 2022 2:48 am

dataq1 wrote: ↑

Fri May 27, 2022 8:50 pm

... the normality of 30 minute breathing cessations.

Wouldn't that be "the abnormality of 30 minute breathing cessations"?
At any rate, that was never the case.
AAMOF, there are ~270 breaths in the supposed "cessation" as the thread title is very misleading.

There you are. Back again, ha?
Your insinuation that "270 breaths" were recorded during the more than 30 minute breathing cessation,is of course nonsense because you are misleading the readers by insinuating these to be "patient triggered breaths", not machine's,
There is of course ZERO (as in Null, nill, nada) "Patient triggered breaths" recorded during the cessation of more than 30 minutes as the chart in the OP clearly demonstrates.
So the "270 patient breaths" that you are insinuating to have been logged during that period, do not exist because Philips Respironics BiPAP Auto ASValgo records (and reports) "machine triggered breaths" for its event logging, when there's no patient triggered breaths, unlike Resmed Aircurve ASV algo that doesn't log much and leaves it to their cheerleaders to "esplain" it all using limited imagination .
Philips algo also records and logs "average breath rate" and "minute ventilation" too and since during cessations the machine does the ventilation, it is counted as "breath rate" and "minute ventilation" during cessation, naturally (unless flow is closed completely, in which case a breath rate of Zero/min and a MV of Zero/min would be recorded. The whole point of ASV ventilation support .
"Patient triggered Breaths" in the chart, are "percentage of the total (machine and spontaneous) breaths" over time, which the chart in the OP clearly shows as "ZERO PERCENT" for the entire period of more than 30 minutes.

Here's a more recent event where no "patient triggered breaths" were reported for more than 12 minutes and thank you for staying on topic.
Remember that just because you have no clue ,it does not mean that there is no solution. in this case some basic understanding of Central Apnea would have sufficed.
And here's a zoomed in screenshot of the event:

Now that I got him to "Speak", wanna see me get him to "Roll Over"?