ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

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Conrad
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ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:07 am

I've been having issues with rainout while using my new month old AirCurve and the heated ClimateLine hose. Either something is wrong with my machine or the hose.

When I first started using my new machine I had both the hose and the humidifier set to Auto but the hose didn't seem like it was warming up. It didn't feel warm to the touch after running for a little while nor did it prevent moisture build up in the hose. I tired manually setting the hose temp, starting at 83 and working my way up to 86 (maxed out) last night.

Last night was the worst EVER! I woke at 4am with water in my nose and when I rolled over I could actually hear water gurgling in my hose. Not good! I pulled my mask off and went back to sleep for an hour or so. When I got up I took a look at my hose and, sure enough, it was full of water at the low point of the hose, like the trap in a sink drain.

With the cooler temps at night it has been cooler in the bedroom (we leave a window open) and I know that this would lead to more condensation in the hose, if it weren't heated.

When I plug the ClimateLine hose into the machine I do get a notice that the hose has been recognized and of course I'm able to adjust temps when the hose is ID'ed.

I do have another brand new hose to try and I'll do that today. I also plan on using my multimeter to check for continuity in the suspect hose. It has three connection points where it gets power from the machine but I don't know what kind of numbers I should see nor do I know what connects to what. I suppose I'll Ohm it out, as they say, and compare it to the brand new hose that I have.

There must be some kind of sensor in the hose right? That would explain the three connection points since a simple heater circuit would only need two. If the heater circuit is open that would explain why the hose isn't heating but if that circuit was open would the machine still recognize the hose when I initially connect the thing?

I could also check the connections on the machine for power but I suspect that power is only supplied to those connections when the machine senses that a ClimateLine hose is connected. That complicates troubleshooting.

Advice?

Thanks for reading.
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Pugsy
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:19 am

Which mask are you using?
What is the ambient temperature in your bedroom with the window open? Approx?
What is your humidity setting?

Take the hose off the machine and drain it thoroughly. Put it aside for now. It needs to air dry thoroughly and that's hard to accomplish unless you blow some air through it for quite some time.
Start tonight with the new heated hose.

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Conrad
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:20 am

Pugsy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:19 am
Which mask are you using?
What is the ambient temperature in your bedroom with the window open? Approx?
What is your humidity setting?

Take the hose off the machine and drain it thoroughly. Put it aside for now. It needs to air dry thoroughly and that's hard to accomplish unless you blow some air through it for quite some time.
Start tonight with the new heated hose.
Which mask are you using? <=== Swift FX
What is the ambient temperature in your bedroom with the window open? Approx? <=== ~ 60F with a fan running
What is your humidity setting? <=== The machine is set on Auto for humidity

In the morning I always disconnect the hose and hang it up to dry alongside my mask/mask tubing. The AirCurve runs a small amount of air through the system for ~30 mins after it's turned off. I wait for this to finish before I disconnect anything, including removing the water reservoir.

As few weeks ago I set the hose temp to 86 just to check to see if the tube was warming up. It did, at least it did initially at that time. I reset it to auto after this test. Last night with the tube set to 86 I didn't feel any warmth at all after checking it with my hand after it ran for several minutes.

As always, thanks for your help Pugsy.
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:42 am

It's always possible that some sort of electrical failure can happen with these heated hoses but most of the time what we think is failure is actually from a combination of factors.

1....60 degrees ambient temp is going to be rough for the 86 degrees hose air temp to prevent condensation especially when we use a mask that adds unheated hose to the equation. As soon as the air exits the heated hose the ambient air temp will start the cooling process. The Swift FX has such a short hose.

2...don't go by "it doesn't feel warm" to judge if the heated hose is working or not. Use a digital thermometer to verify the temp when you don't think it is warm. 86 degrees is still cooler than our body is and feelings can be misleading. Use a digital thermometer.....stick it in the mask end of the hose and verify.

As someone who prefers high humidity settings and cold bedroom ambient temps I have had extensive experience over the years dealing with condensation in the mask and/or hose. Comes with the territory. You should have been around in 2009 when I started therapy and the only heated hose was a $150 stand alone heated hose from Australia. :lol:

Some things I have learned over the years...and used as recently as a couple of nights ago.
That preference for a colder bedroom is the biggest culprit....I also left my window open the other night and temps dropped and I got rain out in both the nasal pillows and the short hose (which then traveled down to the heated hose).
It takes very little water to create a train wreck of noise and/or give a person a cold shower when the water sprays out the vent holes. Heated hose set to max 86 degrees and humidity set to 6 in my case but I have had it happen with the auto setting for humidity as well which is probably close to a setting of 4.
If the bedroom gets cold enough the heated hose just can't keep up especially when we are using a mask that has any sort of added hose. The air in that non heated short hose just cools off quickly and we get rain out.

So here are some options.
1....verify with the digital thermometer that the heated hose is actually heating the air.
2....warm up the ambient air in the bedroom in some way
3....put a short hose cozy on the non heated hose in hopes of preventing the cool down of the air in that short hose.
There are store bought short hose cozies...padacheek makes some great ones...or we can make our own with a couple of old socks...cut out the toes and slide then over the short hose and secure with scotch tape or rubber bands or even bread ties. Often the added insulation of a good thick sock will be enough to help the air stay heated in the short hose so that rain out is prevented.
4...reduce the humidity setting....this option I am not fond of and it doesn't always work anyway. Our own exhaled breath contains a fair amount of moisture and can condense in the mask (especially pillow masks because the water sort of pools in the pillows). My nasal mucosa isn't very happy with less moisture for one thing....I get some nasty allergy like symptoms when my nasal mucosa get dried out and aren't moist enough to keep them happy. Not to mention the fact that I know of people not even using a humidifier at all getting rain out just from the moisture in their own exhaled breaths.
5....you will see people tell you to just put the machine lower and let gravity help out....and while it might help with some machines it is pretty much a useless idea for the AirCurve/AirSense models due to the connection at the humidifier to hose coupling. It just won't drain well enough. I have had rain out so bad that I have got up out of bed and held the hose totally vertical to try to drain out the water and it still won't drain well enough. I have to unhook the hose from the humidifier and then drain it with hose totally vertical.
6....it takes very little water to create a lot of noise or give you the cold shower. Near as I can tell as little as a quarter tsp can create all sorts of hell. Hence the "make sure the hose is totally dry at the beginning of the night" warning.
7....Consider a nasal pillow barrel cozy for the nasal pillows...they do work when people are having mainly water in the pillows.
One of the best investments I ever made before we had heated hoses and still can be useful now since I still prefer a cold bedroom.
https://www.padacheek.com/barrel-cozies-1
and the material Karen at padacheek uses feels like silk against the skin. Super comfy.

I suspect your heated hose is functioning properly but there is always the chance the heater coils can fail....so verify with a digital thermometer and replace if needed.
You have several options...you can try one or a combination of any of the options as to your choosing.
Accept that rain out can/will happen when we prefer a colder bedroom. I can't sleep in a too warm bedroom....so I have experimented extensively with the various options. My nose needs lots of moisture as well....prime recipe for condensation.

The "auto" function for humidity and hose air temp....looks good on paper but the success is going to depend on the ambient room temp. It just can't do the job with colder bedrooms and in my experience anything below 68 degrees ambient temps will create condensation problems. My bedroom gets to the mid 50s in winter.... :lol: :lol:
A short hose cozy and a barrel cozy and a heated hose set to max....usually lets me avoid the cold showers and noise.

Now you can add a long hose cozy to the heated hose but it can't make the air warmer than the temp selected. Just uses less electricity to maintain the selected temp UNLESS you extend the hose cozy down over the short unheated hose.
Hose cozies of any decent quality will add weight though and I find the added weight annoying so I don't use a hose cozy on a heated hose. One of my husbands old tube socks makes a great insulator on the short unheated hose and weighs next to nothing.

Good luck...pick an option and start experimenting.

There was one other option....on the tips of my fingers but it eludes me for right now. If I think of it later I will add a note.

_________________
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sephiro499
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by sephiro499 » Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:50 am

Is there anyway to use a larger diameter hose w the Vauto? I dislike that the climate line is the slimmer diameter and it's far less flexible than the heated tube on a Respironics for example.

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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Pugsy » Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:12 pm

sephiro499 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:50 am
Is there anyway to use a larger diameter hose w the Vauto? I dislike that the climate line is the slimmer diameter and it's far less flexible than the heated tube on a Respironics for example.
You can use a larger diameter non heated hose if you wish. Typically they aren't particularly flexible though. Any brand will work. They can be made more flexible with just a little time in the clothes dryer though.

There is also a larger diameter heated hose from ResMed...19 mm compared to the 15 mm of the slimline.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/resmed ... ircurve-10
Probably still won't be as flexible as you prefer though.
The oxygen adapter has a plug if someone doesn't need or use added O2.

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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by palerider » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:12 pm

Pugsy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 12:12 pm
sephiro499 wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 11:50 am
Is there anyway to use a larger diameter hose w the Vauto? I dislike that the climate line is the slimmer diameter and it's far less flexible than the heated tube on a Respironics for example.
You can use a larger diameter non heated hose if you wish. Typically they aren't particularly flexible though. Any brand will work. They can be made more flexible with just a little time in the clothes dryer though.
Note to OP: A very short time, like under 2 minutes, I go for maybe a minute, then check.

Here's a before and after of two of the same brand hoses:

Image

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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by zonker » Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:47 pm

palerider wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:12 pm


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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:46 am

Pugsy wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:42 am
It's always possible that some sort of electrical failure can happen with these heated hoses but most of the time what we think is failure is actually from a combination of factors.

1....60 degrees ambient temp is going to be rough for the 86 degrees hose air temp to prevent condensation especially when we use a mask that adds unheated hose to the equation. As soon as the air exits the heated hose the ambient air temp will start the cooling process. The Swift FX has such a short hose.

2...don't go by "it doesn't feel warm" to judge if the heated hose is working or not. Use a digital thermometer to verify the temp when you don't think it is warm. 86 degrees is still cooler than our body is and feelings can be misleading. Use a digital thermometer.....stick it in the mask end of the hose and verify.

As someone who prefers high humidity settings and cold bedroom ambient temps I have had extensive experience over the years dealing with condensation in the mask and/or hose. Comes with the territory. You should have been around in 2009 when I started therapy and the only heated hose was a $150 stand alone heated hose from Australia. :lol:

Some things I have learned over the years...and used as recently as a couple of nights ago.
That preference for a colder bedroom is the biggest culprit....I also left my window open the other night and temps dropped and I got rain out in both the nasal pillows and the short hose (which then traveled down to the heated hose).
It takes very little water to create a train wreck of noise and/or give a person a cold shower when the water sprays out the vent holes. Heated hose set to max 86 degrees and humidity set to 6 in my case but I have had it happen with the auto setting for humidity as well which is probably close to a setting of 4.
If the bedroom gets cold enough the heated hose just can't keep up especially when we are using a mask that has any sort of added hose. The air in that non heated short hose just cools off quickly and we get rain out.

So here are some options.
1....verify with the digital thermometer that the heated hose is actually heating the air.
2....warm up the ambient air in the bedroom in some way
3....put a short hose cozy on the non heated hose in hopes of preventing the cool down of the air in that short hose.
There are store bought short hose cozies...padacheek makes some great ones...or we can make our own with a couple of old socks...cut out the toes and slide then over the short hose and secure with scotch tape or rubber bands or even bread ties. Often the added insulation of a good thick sock will be enough to help the air stay heated in the short hose so that rain out is prevented.
4...reduce the humidity setting....this option I am not fond of and it doesn't always work anyway. Our own exhaled breath contains a fair amount of moisture and can condense in the mask (especially pillow masks because the water sort of pools in the pillows). My nasal mucosa isn't very happy with less moisture for one thing....I get some nasty allergy like symptoms when my nasal mucosa get dried out and aren't moist enough to keep them happy. Not to mention the fact that I know of people not even using a humidifier at all getting rain out just from the moisture in their own exhaled breaths.
5....you will see people tell you to just put the machine lower and let gravity help out....and while it might help with some machines it is pretty much a useless idea for the AirCurve/AirSense models due to the connection at the humidifier to hose coupling. It just won't drain well enough. I have had rain out so bad that I have got up out of bed and held the hose totally vertical to try to drain out the water and it still won't drain well enough. I have to unhook the hose from the humidifier and then drain it with hose totally vertical.
6....it takes very little water to create a lot of noise or give you the cold shower. Near as I can tell as little as a quarter tsp can create all sorts of hell. Hence the "make sure the hose is totally dry at the beginning of the night" warning.
7....Consider a nasal pillow barrel cozy for the nasal pillows...they do work when people are having mainly water in the pillows.
One of the best investments I ever made before we had heated hoses and still can be useful now since I still prefer a cold bedroom.
https://www.padacheek.com/barrel-cozies-1
and the material Karen at padacheek uses feels like silk against the skin. Super comfy.

I suspect your heated hose is functioning properly but there is always the chance the heater coils can fail....so verify with a digital thermometer and replace if needed.
You have several options...you can try one or a combination of any of the options as to your choosing.
Accept that rain out can/will happen when we prefer a colder bedroom. I can't sleep in a too warm bedroom....so I have experimented extensively with the various options. My nose needs lots of moisture as well....prime recipe for condensation.

The "auto" function for humidity and hose air temp....looks good on paper but the success is going to depend on the ambient room temp. It just can't do the job with colder bedrooms and in my experience anything below 68 degrees ambient temps will create condensation problems. My bedroom gets to the mid 50s in winter.... :lol: :lol:
A short hose cozy and a barrel cozy and a heated hose set to max....usually lets me avoid the cold showers and noise.

Now you can add a long hose cozy to the heated hose but it can't make the air warmer than the temp selected. Just uses less electricity to maintain the selected temp UNLESS you extend the hose cozy down over the short unheated hose.
Hose cozies of any decent quality will add weight though and I find the added weight annoying so I don't use a hose cozy on a heated hose. One of my husbands old tube socks makes a great insulator on the short unheated hose and weighs next to nothing.

Good luck...pick an option and start experimenting.

There was one other option....on the tips of my fingers but it eludes me for right now. If I think of it later I will add a note.
Now THAT'S a BUNCH of info! Thank you VERY much for taking the time to post all of that in response to my issue. :D

This is all great info but I'm afraid that, in my case, it's all for naught. As it turns out the ClimateLine heated hose that I was using initially was/is defective.

I swapped out the problematic hose for a brand new ClimateLine that I had on hand. I tested it and I could feel it warm up in my hand within a couple of minutes.

I have an instant read inferred thermometer and I tested the tube temp. I had the tube temp set to manual and 86f and within a few minutes the outside of the tube was at 90f. I then reattached the old hose and tested again. After 5 minutes the outside of the tube was at 80f but it wouldn't go any higher. I then tested the temp of the hotplate, 80f. So the old tube was warming but the heat was coming from the hotplate and not the heating element of the tube.

I checked the electrical properties of the old tube with my multimeter. The circuit was not open as I expected but had a 10 Ohm resistance in what I'm assuming is the heating circuit. 10 Ohms would make sense at least for a heater. I don't know why this tube isn't heating, perhaps there's a fault in the heating element that causes the circuit to open after it starts to heat? I don't know and it doesn't matter, The CPAP Shop is sending me a replacement for the defective hose.

I used the new hose last night with both the humidity control and the tube temp set to Auto. The ambient temp of our bedroom was 62f and the machine worked perfectly. No rainout and no moisture in the hose. I woke up a couple of times during the night and checked the tube temp with my hand, nice and warm.

Again, thanks for your help Pugsy!
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Conrad
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:49 am

zonker wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 5:47 pm
palerider wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:12 pm


Image
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Why resist? :twisted:
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Pugsy
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Pugsy » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:21 am

Conrad wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:46 am
it's all for naught.
Nope. While verification of heated hose electrical issue did uncover your problem and there was an easy fix (new hose) that doesn't mean that someone somewhere sometime will experience rain out and my thoughts may help them sort out their issues.
And doesn't mean that in mid January you won't have cause to revisit moisture somewhere. :lol:
Crap happens as they say.

While over kill for your situation my novel will eventually very likely to be of use to someone else as I copied all that and put it on a cheat sheet so that the next time someone comes here with similar complaints .....all I have to do is copy/paste the reply and save a lot of typing. I had the time and energy to compose the novel so I did it...I don't always feel like covering all possible bases.

While you only needed step number one....someone else might need the other steps.

Glad you got your issues sorted out without a lot of work. Heated hoses can fail but it isn't common to see it happen.

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Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/
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If you want to try the Eclipse mask and want a special promo code to get a little off the price...send me a private message.

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Conrad
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:36 am

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:21 am
Conrad wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 6:46 am
it's all for naught.
Nope. While verification of heated hose electrical issue did uncover your problem and there was an easy fix (new hose) that doesn't mean that someone somewhere sometime will experience rain out and my thoughts may help them sort out their issues.
And doesn't mean that in mid January you won't have cause to revisit moisture somewhere. :lol:
Crap happens as they say.

While over kill for your situation my novel will eventually very likely to be of use to someone else as I copied all that and put it on a cheat sheet so that the next time someone comes here with similar complaints .....all I have to do is copy/paste the reply and save a lot of typing. I had the time and energy to compose the novel so I did it...I don't always feel like covering all possible bases.

While you only needed step number one....someone else might need the other steps.

Glad you got your issues sorted out without a lot of work. Heated hoses can fail but it isn't common to see it happen.
Yep, you're right. Your novel will at some point help someone.

One thing in my case that I wanted to point out. I have a simple hose management system and any condensate that collects in the unheated Swift FX tubing or the mask would have to go uphill in order to add to the moisture buildup that I had in the heated tubing. It's also uphill from where the water was collecting to my machine. Fortunately with my heated tubing working correctly I didn't have any moisture buildup anywhere in the system.
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zonker
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by zonker » Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:01 am

Pugsy wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:21 am

And doesn't mean that in mid January you won't have cause to revisit moisture somewhere. :lol:
Crap happens as they say.

very true. we have a storm system moving in and i didn't anticipate a jump in indoor humidity. thus i woke up to rain out in the small hours!

so a lesson to all that humidity needs can change and water can collect in the wrong places.
people say i'm self absorbed.
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by Conrad » Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:49 am

We had rain ALL night long here, it's STILL raining!

Another dry night with zero liquid moisture in my hose or nose. :D
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Re: ClimateLine heated hose issues with AirCurve 10 Vauto

Post by mikegoldnj » Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:46 pm

Glad I came across this thread.

I recently switched over from a recalled Philips Dreamstation to a ResMed Airsense 10 auto. I had been using a humidifier and heated hose on the Philips machine and never had any issues. I could also always feel the warmth of the hose on that unit.

On the ResMed, if I leave the climate setting on auto there are no water issues. However, I’ve been feeling like it’s a bit too dry. I tried going to manual and setting the humidity to 6. Both nights I tried this, I woke up at some point to a “rattling” sound when exhaling. The first night when I heard this I moved the mask away from my face and got sprayed with water and also felt moisture being sprayed from the vent in the elbow connecting the hose to the mask.

All conditions in the room are the same as they were with the Philips machine but I definitely don’t feel any warmth in the ResMed heated hose. I’m thinking there is some sort of issue with the hose.

Since this machine and equipment are only a week old, I got the DME to ship out a replacement hose. We’ll see if that helps.