As CG said, that's the Aveo TSD. I never thought of it as something that gets your tongue on the roof of your mouth, because it really gets your tongue stuck in the forward position. To me that thing looks horribly uncomfortable. If that was our only choice I'd be labelled a whiner in no time!Suddenly Worn Out wrote:That sleep medicine dentist I saw yesterday talked about that. He mentioned some type of anti-snoring device that you suck on that forces your tongue against the roof of your mouth, said it creates a seal with your mouth. He said it is something called a "Tveo" or something along that line. He said I could try it but there is a poor compliance rate with it. But he never treated me before I can tolerate about anything as long as I get good sleep and does not cause infections or ear aches or whatever.
Eric
khauser wrote:I read here somewhere, and have noticed with myself, that when my tongue is pressed to the top of my mouth air can't leak out of my mouth. But if I let it drop then my cheeks puff out and I imagine if I were asleep the lips would part!
Fortunately, tongue against the roof is my normal state ... it's even like that as I type this.
I don't know if that's why some people have leaks and some do not. I have pressures as high as 17 without any indication of leakage.
What causes "mouth leak?"
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Sleep loss is a terrible thing. People get grumpy, short-tempered, etc. That happens here even among the generally friendly. Try not to take it personally.
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Yes Pugsy,
motor boat sound !!!
any tip to solve this ? increase the pression in cpap deactivating the auto mode ?
I bought the chinstrap
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/premiu ... igodigital
arrive in the next days...I hope with this be free of the tapes in the mouth....
thanks for your help !
motor boat sound !!!
any tip to solve this ? increase the pression in cpap deactivating the auto mode ?
I bought the chinstrap
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/premiu ... igodigital
arrive in the next days...I hope with this be free of the tapes in the mouth....
thanks for your help !
Cpap: DeVilbiss IntelliPAP Auto CPAP Machine with SmartFlex
Mask 1: ResMed Swift ™ FX Nasal Pillow Mask
Mask 2: EasyFit Silicone Nasal Mask
Mask 1: ResMed Swift ™ FX Nasal Pillow Mask
Mask 2: EasyFit Silicone Nasal Mask
- Suddenly Worn Out
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:41 pm
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Yeah, thats what he was talking about. He said the compliance rate for them is low, but then again you have to factor in the fact that if a person goes thru the minimalist trouble to get one of these prescribed, it arguably means they are looking for a "low impact" treatment for OSA. And that means they are not all that serious about treating their OSA to begin with. This is my own personal speculative opinion.
Who knows, maybe using one of those things with nasal CPAP might work and get rid of the need for a FFM? Im skeptical that thing would treat anything more than mild OSA though, by itself. Maybe Im wrong, though.
Eric
Who knows, maybe using one of those things with nasal CPAP might work and get rid of the need for a FFM? Im skeptical that thing would treat anything more than mild OSA though, by itself. Maybe Im wrong, though.
Eric
ChicagoGranny wrote:Aveo TSD. See viewtopic.php?f=1&t=86511 and http://www.aveotsd.com/index.phpHe said it is something called a "Tveo" or something along that line.
_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Also own a PR System One APAP with humidifier and a Resmed S9 APAP with H5i humidifier |
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Better tape. The paper tape allows saliva to disrupt the seal..mouth comes open a little.piwtorak wrote:motor boat sound !!!
any tip to solve this ? increase the pression in cpap deactivating the auto mode ?
Paper tape is nice and soft but comes off easy.
Maybe a wider strip of it??? cover more of the lips above and below to lessen chance of it coming totally loose.
No need to change pressure stuff...it's all about the tape staying secure.
We have to find a compromise between a tape that is fairly secure and doesn't come off too easily and not be too difficult to remove in a hurry.
I don't know what you have available in Brazil but I had good luck with 2 inch blue painter's tape. It withstood most of my "drool" and yet the seal could be broken with just a tiny bit of effort in an emergency.
Something along the lines of this
http://www.sears.com/3m-2080-scotch-blu ... 175746401P
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
- Suddenly Worn Out
- Posts: 353
- Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:41 pm
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
I gotta admit after being super duper compliant with CPAP since 2007, it is sorta refreshing to hear about treating OSA from an altogether different angle. This dental sleep medicine stuff is mildly interesting. I learned a few things yesterday I had not a clue about before yesterday.
Im honestly skeptical that oral appliances are all that effective for treating anything more than mild OSA and snoring. But I think they might have a place in combination with CPAP. Combination therapy...maybe there is hope in that.
The dentist mentioned he wanted to make me an OA, but not stick my chin out maximally like he does with some OA patients. He said "about 75% out there." That way I (hopefully) dont get the side effects some OA patients get with a fully jutted out there chin. And that reduces my pressure needs and then finish it off with nasal CPAP using a loose fitting mask.
But the big question (BIG QUESTION) is "will I still mouth leak with the oral appliance if I use nasal CPAP?" If I still mouth leak, Im back to square one and spent a bunch of insurance money and even some of my own money for something that does not work.
He did not want to make me an OA that would just seal up my mouth like I wanted. I could tell he had liability worries there. Same principle as mouth taping. Potentially dangerous, even though tons of people do it regularly and never have problems.
Eric
Im honestly skeptical that oral appliances are all that effective for treating anything more than mild OSA and snoring. But I think they might have a place in combination with CPAP. Combination therapy...maybe there is hope in that.
The dentist mentioned he wanted to make me an OA, but not stick my chin out maximally like he does with some OA patients. He said "about 75% out there." That way I (hopefully) dont get the side effects some OA patients get with a fully jutted out there chin. And that reduces my pressure needs and then finish it off with nasal CPAP using a loose fitting mask.
But the big question (BIG QUESTION) is "will I still mouth leak with the oral appliance if I use nasal CPAP?" If I still mouth leak, Im back to square one and spent a bunch of insurance money and even some of my own money for something that does not work.
He did not want to make me an OA that would just seal up my mouth like I wanted. I could tell he had liability worries there. Same principle as mouth taping. Potentially dangerous, even though tons of people do it regularly and never have problems.
Eric
_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Also own a PR System One APAP with humidifier and a Resmed S9 APAP with H5i humidifier |
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Suddenly Worn Out wrote: The dentist mentioned he wanted to make me an OA
This device is most commonly called a MAD (mandibular advancement device).
OA, at least in this forum, means obstructive apnea.
Boyce
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Ok Pugsy,
I have silver tape here...
and I have one address in USA for shops...no problem to come to brazil with any product cpap is included...
let you know about my therapy ..
thanks !!!
I have silver tape here...
and I have one address in USA for shops...no problem to come to brazil with any product cpap is included...
let you know about my therapy ..
thanks !!!
Cpap: DeVilbiss IntelliPAP Auto CPAP Machine with SmartFlex
Mask 1: ResMed Swift ™ FX Nasal Pillow Mask
Mask 2: EasyFit Silicone Nasal Mask
Mask 1: ResMed Swift ™ FX Nasal Pillow Mask
Mask 2: EasyFit Silicone Nasal Mask
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
khauser wrote:I read here somewhere, and have noticed with myself, that when my tongue is pressed to the top of my mouth air can't leak out of my mouth.
I also have seen others post that here and I don't understand it.
Many years ago when I ran cross country, when we hit an area with gnats we would breathe through our mouth with our tongues on the roof of our mouths. (You swallowed less gnats like that but still got many between your teeth.)
When I have my tongue on the roof of my mouth, all I have to do to breathe through my mouth is open my lips (tongue stays on roof of mouth).
As I remember the whole team breathed like this at times, so I don't think my anatomy is so different from the typical.
If you put the tongue on the roof of your mouth, can you really not open your lips and breathe?
Boyce
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
You know I tried that...just now. Normally with my tongue placement I cannot breath through my mouth...in fact I can open my mouth with mask and machine on and yawn and not have a tiny bit of air escape the airway.Boyce wrote:If you put the tongue on the roof of your mouth, can you really not open your lips and breathe?
It took some effort but yes I finally managed to position the tongue so I could breathe through my mouth.....your ears are going to be burning if I just unlearned something I worked really hard to do subconsciously.
The positioning of the tongue is different with breathing through mouth than when it seals the airway. Hard to describe it.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Where do you place the tip of your tongue?Hard to describe it.
I normally place the tip on the roof just behind the top two front teeth. But just now I tried moving it all back and forth on the roof and I can breathe through the mouth at any position.
Boyce
- Suddenly Worn Out
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Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
I had never tried it before but just did. I found if I put my tongue on the top of my mouth, I cant breathe thru my mouth. Its only if I relax my tongue a little that I can get some air in thru my mouth.
So there maybe something to this. Now the question is...is the "seal" created by keeping your tongue on the roof of your mouth a strong enough seal to withstand higher pressures, like 10 and over? Without breaking that seal created and creating leaks?
Eric
So there maybe something to this. Now the question is...is the "seal" created by keeping your tongue on the roof of your mouth a strong enough seal to withstand higher pressures, like 10 and over? Without breaking that seal created and creating leaks?
Eric
Boyce wrote:khauser wrote:I read here somewhere, and have noticed with myself, that when my tongue is pressed to the top of my mouth air can't leak out of my mouth.
I also have seen others post that here and I don't understand it.
Many years ago when I ran cross country, when we hit an area with gnats we would breathe through our mouth with our tongues on the roof of our mouths. (You swallowed less gnats like that but still got many between your teeth.)
When I have my tongue on the roof of my mouth, all I have to do to breathe through my mouth is open my lips (tongue stays on roof of mouth).
As I remember the whole team breathed like this at times, so I don't think my anatomy is so different from the typical.
If you put the tongue on the roof of your mouth, can you really not open your lips and breathe?
_________________
Mask: Mirage Quattro™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control |
Additional Comments: Also own a PR System One APAP with humidifier and a Resmed S9 APAP with H5i humidifier |
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
Tip of tongue doesn't change position. I have to force the tongue to sort of "relax" or something. Hard to put into words.Boyce wrote: Where do you place the tip of your tongue?
The change in overall position of the tongue isn't really that different. Nearly 4 years of keeping the tongue to be a good door makes it a bit odd for me to breathe through my mouth...I am a nose breather for sure.
Mostly my tongue just rests barely behind front teeth and sort of stuck to the roof of the mouth.
_________________
Machine: AirCurve™ 10 VAuto BiLevel Machine with HumidAir™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Mask Bleep Eclipse https://bleepsleep.com/the-eclipse/ |
I may have to RISE but I refuse to SHINE.
- jilliansue
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:47 pm
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
I have struggled with all the issues you listed. And I have tried many masks. I have not been able to find a full face mask that will fit well enough not to leak. I have tried quite a few, but not all of them.
I, too, got a chinstrap from my DME along with my first mask, which was the Swift FX nasal pillows mask. The chinstrap slid around and was not very useful. I have tried several different chinstraps.
I currently use the Resmed Activa nasal mask, and I agree, it is very comfortable. My current chinstrap is sort of a "lab rat" mixture. I use the PapCap:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pursle ... otton.html
But rather than use the chinstrap part that came with the cap, I use this basic, white one: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... white.html I cut its straps so that they can overlap and Velcro onto each other at the top of the cap. The straps of the chinstrap stick to the Velcro along the sides of the cap, and I use the little white squares of Velcro that came with the white chinstrap, to Velcro the straps together on top of the cap.
It works for me because the chinstrap has a sort of "cup" of fabric which I can extend to cover my lips. This helps keep the leaks at bay, the cap keeps the strap in place, and I have had good success with it.
Another thing I have tried in the past, which I learned here, is to sew a piece of Velcro to the inside of a strap of a chinstrap, or of a mask, to keep it from sliding on my hair. I have the slick, fine sort of hair, and so this was a problem for me.
What fun!! It is a matter of continuing to try new things, isn't it??
Good luck!
I, too, got a chinstrap from my DME along with my first mask, which was the Swift FX nasal pillows mask. The chinstrap slid around and was not very useful. I have tried several different chinstraps.
I currently use the Resmed Activa nasal mask, and I agree, it is very comfortable. My current chinstrap is sort of a "lab rat" mixture. I use the PapCap:
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pursle ... otton.html
But rather than use the chinstrap part that came with the cap, I use this basic, white one: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... white.html I cut its straps so that they can overlap and Velcro onto each other at the top of the cap. The straps of the chinstrap stick to the Velcro along the sides of the cap, and I use the little white squares of Velcro that came with the white chinstrap, to Velcro the straps together on top of the cap.
It works for me because the chinstrap has a sort of "cup" of fabric which I can extend to cover my lips. This helps keep the leaks at bay, the cap keeps the strap in place, and I have had good success with it.
Another thing I have tried in the past, which I learned here, is to sew a piece of Velcro to the inside of a strap of a chinstrap, or of a mask, to keep it from sliding on my hair. I have the slick, fine sort of hair, and so this was a problem for me.
What fun!! It is a matter of continuing to try new things, isn't it??
Good luck!
_________________
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
Additional Comments: PR System One 60 Series BiPAP autoSV Advanced |
Re: What causes "mouth leak?"
It's not the top of the tongue actually ... it's the middle part just behind. I can breathe through my mouth regardless of where the tip of my tongue is. But if I put the past just behind the top up, I can't breathe through my mouth at all.
My tongue is a bit on the wide side...
My tongue is a bit on the wide side...
Sleep loss is a terrible thing. People get grumpy, short-tempered, etc. That happens here even among the generally friendly. Try not to take it personally.