Okay. I have resisted, but I have to chime in here as this thread really strikes a chord. I have suffered major depression (funny how living 17 years with an abusive alcoholic can do that to you!). There are a couple of things that really stand out from that period (about 15-20 years ago). One was always being tired. The other was that the psychiatrist who worked with my psychotherapist commented that what she thought I needed most was sleep. Of course, in those days, she prescribed drugs to help me get to sleep. There wasn't as much awareness then that maybe the quality of sleep I was getting was the problem. I am just thankful now that my current internist recognized the possibility and ordered the sleep tests which diagnosed my severe OSA and severe oxygen desaturations (to 60%). I have put in about 300 hours on my little PB CPAP, and I am no longer dozing at my computer (or in meetings, or reading, or talking to people--that was the one that was really embarrassing!). I agree wholeheartedly that psychiatrists should be considering the possibility of sleep apnea, and I believe that questions about sleep should be asked every year when physicals are given. Sleep studies are expensive until compared with the cost of the results of untreated sleep apnea (hypertension, strokes, heart disease, and PSYCHIATRISTS!) I agree that the CPAP couldn't have done much about my partner's alcoholism, but it's amazing how much a person puts up with when they are too tired to fight back!
Anyone Else Referred to Sleep Study By Psychiatrist
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Sandyhappy newyear
Depression and psychaitrist
I will try this again. I was recently referred to my new doctor, a counselor/psychologist for back pain. I told her my history and she stated that sleep apnea is a direct link to depression and anxiety. Both I have suffered with for many years. I have been diagnosed with several million things including Firbormyalgia, Manic Depression and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. All causing depression, but not related. She emphasized that the loss of sleep can cause depression, anxiety and pain that I am dealing with due to an injury suffered by me 10 years ago. I have used the machine for almost 3 weeks and I have noticed significant improvement in my fatigue, but not as much in the pain yet. However, the pain has minimized a bit since using the CPAP. I live in a nasty wet climate lately and in the past, I would be depressed, but I am not as depressed as I was in the past’s think this therapist hit the nail on the head after she confessed that she worked in a major well known sleep clinic here in Michigan. I know of it and it is a very significant sleep program in the country! So I have to agree that we may have a correlation to this and depression.
Wow! I just got on this sight today, and found this subject already! Was being treated for depression by my family doctor for about six years--changing medications every six months or so, until she(DR.) felt she was out of her range as a doctor, and referred me to a psychiatrist. Within the first five minutes I had a referal to a Pulminary doctr for a sleep test. I didn't realise I live in a backwoods country town, but our resources locally are few, so the time from referral to cpap was seven months. I stopped breathing an average of 73 times an hour in my first sleep test. I'm on my second brand of mask, but am still tired. I found this site today looking for answers to my bloated belly and noxious gas--I quit smoking while waiting for my cpap, so I thought I was getting fatter--and I find I have aerophagia. So, since my first available appointment with the sleep doctor isn't for a month and a half, I guess I'll be driving blind for a while yet. I hope I get to your pink cloud someday!
You are all telling my story so well, that I wont bore you with my details (and there are those here that don't want to hear it again).
Search through this forum and you will find prior threads on this topic. Also, check out the FAQ (big red question mark above). There are links to several articles related to sleep apnea and depression that are fascinating.
Search through this forum and you will find prior threads on this topic. Also, check out the FAQ (big red question mark above). There are links to several articles related to sleep apnea and depression that are fascinating.
"First rule of holes: when you are in one, stop digging"
Jere,Jere wrote:You are all telling my story so well, that I wont bore you with my details (and there are those here that don't want to hear it again).
Search through this forum and you will find prior threads on this topic. Also, check out the FAQ (big red question mark above). There are links to several articles related to sleep apnea and depression that are fascinating.
I can't imagine being bored by your story. All of these stories are interesting, even if a lot of it is similar. It's all just a reminder of how serious misdiagnosis can be. And always feel free to talk about whatever you like. Besides, you're a fellow Marylander. I want to hear what a fellow Marylander has to say. Thanks for the tip about the FAQ.
Linda
Jere's story is far from boring - if you search for "depression", with Jere as author you'll find it.
By the way Jere, I love your moto!
O.
By the way Jere, I love your moto!
O.
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| Mask: AirFit™ P10 Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear |
| Additional Comments: Machine: Resmed AirSense10 for Her with Climateline heated hose ; alternating masks. |
After my first night on CPAP, I needed a psychiatrist
I haven't seen a psychiatrist in 30 years, but after my fist night on CPAP, I needed to see one. I was close to panic. I turned to my old companion, Valium. [I've kept a vial of 5 mg on standby for 30 years, and occasionally I'll partake. It is my security blanket. Any of you other recovered anxiety neurotics have a securtiy blanket?] And, I think I recall using one tablet the 2nd night.
But, as bad as my introduction was, I've become acclimated. I am very compliant, now, averaging about 9 hours per night. It is going to work for me. I've been on CPAP for almost 2 months, now.
Jerry
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
But, as bad as my introduction was, I've become acclimated. I am very compliant, now, averaging about 9 hours per night. It is going to work for me. I've been on CPAP for almost 2 months, now.
Jerry
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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): CPAP
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| Machine | Mask | |
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Un-treated AHI = 9.5
Titrated prssure: 6 cm
Ave. AHI after therapy = 0.5
Ave. Snore Index = <10
Current pressure = 9 cm
Titrated prssure: 6 cm
Ave. AHI after therapy = 0.5
Ave. Snore Index = <10
Current pressure = 9 cm
I am diagnosed as bi-polar but have been totally "med resistant", meaning that medications have not ever worked to relieve symptoms. I've been thru just about all of them over the last 15 years.
I was told by a psycho doc or few that I was "asymptomatic" bi-polar, which seemed to me that they were somewhere in the clueless range.
My symptoms were constant fatiuge, all over burning sensation, irritability, "intermittant explosive disorder", muscle pain, confusion and inability to focus on tasks or recall data adiquatly.
At one point, during a discussion, I asked the Doctor if it could possibly be an issue with my adrinal glands because I always felt agitated. He looked me straight in the eye and said, I kid you not, he said this "the body has absolutly no influence or impact upon the brain or the mind".
I've been through several psycho Doctors and found that view to be fairly universal amongst them in this area. At least the ones available through Medi-Cal and the VA.
I stopped going to psycho Docs a few years ago. No good was comming of it and I was sick and tired of constantly dealing with "acceptable side effects" that were often as bad as the "depression" itself and getting no relief in return.
A while back I went through an episode where I'd stop breathing everytime I started to fall asleep. I'd start to drift off, feel myself stop breathing, struggle while in a kind of "fugue state" then come fully awake gasping for air. This would go on for a few hours until I'd become to frightend to try sleeping for the night and I'd just say up, usually pacing to stay awake.
This would continue for night after night unitl I'd finally just fall out unconcious. I fell out once while on the toilet and "slept" for a few hours laying on the bathroom floor with my trousers around my ankles. Fell out while doing dishes and slept on the kitchen floor. and also remember falling out while sitting in a chair and woke up with my head on my knees, still in the chair, in the process of throwing up all over myself.
In desperation I went online and searched and found a site that talked about sleep apnea. It was a sleep study center here locally that was just opening up. I called em but they didnt take my level of disability insurance.
I went through the process of getting a GP Doctor through the welfare clinic here and got very lucky. This Doctor set me up within that week with a Doctor doing sleep disfunction research at the hospital and that Doctor got me in through MIA (Medically Indigent Adult) status.
I got the sleep study and 3 days later, after Medi-Cal cleared for payment, I got my CPAP.
I am usually nearly bed ridden during this time of year with my "asymtomatic depression" but I've not had anywhere near a bad episode since Starting CPAP therapy.
If I ever run into one of those psycho "doctors" I might have a knee-jerk "explosive disorder" episode.
The idea of trying to sleep without my breathing machine still terrifies me enough to turn my gut to water.
I was told by a psycho doc or few that I was "asymptomatic" bi-polar, which seemed to me that they were somewhere in the clueless range.
My symptoms were constant fatiuge, all over burning sensation, irritability, "intermittant explosive disorder", muscle pain, confusion and inability to focus on tasks or recall data adiquatly.
At one point, during a discussion, I asked the Doctor if it could possibly be an issue with my adrinal glands because I always felt agitated. He looked me straight in the eye and said, I kid you not, he said this "the body has absolutly no influence or impact upon the brain or the mind".
I've been through several psycho Doctors and found that view to be fairly universal amongst them in this area. At least the ones available through Medi-Cal and the VA.
I stopped going to psycho Docs a few years ago. No good was comming of it and I was sick and tired of constantly dealing with "acceptable side effects" that were often as bad as the "depression" itself and getting no relief in return.
A while back I went through an episode where I'd stop breathing everytime I started to fall asleep. I'd start to drift off, feel myself stop breathing, struggle while in a kind of "fugue state" then come fully awake gasping for air. This would go on for a few hours until I'd become to frightend to try sleeping for the night and I'd just say up, usually pacing to stay awake.
This would continue for night after night unitl I'd finally just fall out unconcious. I fell out once while on the toilet and "slept" for a few hours laying on the bathroom floor with my trousers around my ankles. Fell out while doing dishes and slept on the kitchen floor. and also remember falling out while sitting in a chair and woke up with my head on my knees, still in the chair, in the process of throwing up all over myself.
In desperation I went online and searched and found a site that talked about sleep apnea. It was a sleep study center here locally that was just opening up. I called em but they didnt take my level of disability insurance.
I went through the process of getting a GP Doctor through the welfare clinic here and got very lucky. This Doctor set me up within that week with a Doctor doing sleep disfunction research at the hospital and that Doctor got me in through MIA (Medically Indigent Adult) status.
I got the sleep study and 3 days later, after Medi-Cal cleared for payment, I got my CPAP.
I am usually nearly bed ridden during this time of year with my "asymtomatic depression" but I've not had anywhere near a bad episode since Starting CPAP therapy.
If I ever run into one of those psycho "doctors" I might have a knee-jerk "explosive disorder" episode.
The idea of trying to sleep without my breathing machine still terrifies me enough to turn my gut to water.
I bolded those words, because they infuriated me as they did you.damac100 wrote: .... At one point, during a discussion, I asked the Doctor if it could possibly be an issue with my adrinal glands because I always felt agitated. He looked me straight in the eye and said, I kid you not, he said this "the body has absolutly no influence or impact upon the brain or the mind". ........
If I ever run into one of those psycho "doctors" I might have a knee-jerk "explosive disorder" episode.
The idea of trying to sleep without my breathing machine still terrifies me enough to turn my gut to water.
Try shutting down any one of that so-called doctor's BODY functions and see what IMPACT that has on HIS brain!
Sorry, but when I first read that quote, I thought of my mother. Her situation was not an apnea one. But a raging infection throughout my mother's body that went undetected by hospital doctors ultimately succeeded in first making her mind go delirious, then killed her. Now, that's not the same situation as apnea or such, but my point is that something that wreeks havoc on the body sure in hades IMPACTS the brain! I saw it happen. There's a reason why the body and the brain are created simultaneously, because they work hand in hand. You hurt one, you hurt the other. You don't need a college degree to figure that out.
Spend a few years or decades with impaired breathing and see what IMPACT that has on the brain. It impacts everything. You can't breathe, you die. Untreated sleep apnea can be a slow death. It's only sleep, they say. Horse feathers!! It's NOT sleep, it's a BREATHING DISORDER. What kind of doctors are these who can't figure that out?
Gee, I think I just had one of those "explosive disorder" episodes.
Linda (... she rants)
LDuyer wrote:Jere,
I can't imagine being bored by your story. All of these stories are interesting, even if a lot of it is similar. It's all just a reminder of how serious misdiagnosis can be. And always feel free to talk about whatever you like. Besides, you're a fellow Marylander. I want to hear what a fellow Marylander has to say. Thanks for the tip about the FAQ.
Linda
Well, at the risk of being accused of double posting, here is my experience with psychiatrists and apnea. I originally posted this as a response to a 'Getting off Ambien' thread. As I typed this originally, my post wandered off topic. As I re-read it today, it belongs more in this thread than in its original thread. So here it is (slightly edited):
Here is the way I was able to stop taking ambien. I had been taking it for at least 4 years.
I am 46, married for 24 years we are blessed with with 2 teenage boys. I have always been a terrible sleep-onset insomniac. It started in my late teens and never let go. It is not a fun problem to deal with, as most doctors either blame the patient (my favorite: "try to be less stressed") or did not understand the problem or know how to treat it. I think some were afraid to treat it. Nothing coherent was ever done, but I was successful in obtaining medication.
As time went on I started to realize that I was taking too many medications from too many doctors. I would have this problem and go to that doctor, and then get another rx from another doctor. And so on. For my insomnia, I was taking zoloft and ambien and ativan, each from different doctors. This cocktail worked on the insomnia, but I still did not feel 'right'. Sleep is so precious, however, that I went right on taking this stuff for a long, long time.
I finally went to my psychiatrist and complained about the weird stuff the zoloft was doing to my mind and my body and asked for something different. Instead, she sent me to a pharma-psychiatrist (a psychiatrist who specialized in medication). He took my history and then suggested that he do something none of the other doctors would do: he would talk to my psych, my internist and my sleep doc and together they would figure out a plan of action. I was stunned. This had never happened before.
Long story short, everyone talked, and together they determined that my insomnia was likely not due entirely to anxiety (as I was told over and over again) but was was likely caused mostly by an inherited bi-polar-type disorder. This stunned me even more. I have a long marriage, great kids and a successful career - how could I be bi-polar? On the other hand, my mother and her side of the family have a horrific history of bi-polar, schizophrenia, depression, alcoholism and suicide (nice list isn't it?).
The pharma-psych put me on low dose lithium. Immediately, my insomnia of 25 years began to ebb. I started to put the ambien on the night table and take it only if I needed it (without berating myself if I took it). I started skipping it a few days a week, then I was skipping it more often. Finally, I just stopped putting it on the night stand. Now I take one every few weeks.
I also weaned myself off the zoloft. That was way worse than getting off the ambien. It took 8 weeks of very slowly decreasing the dose (and still had a few weeks of the zaps).
Part of the pact with the doctors was that I would agree to have a sleep study (something I had fought for years). I had had one several years ago, but - with the insomnia - it turned into a sleepless fiasco. This time, I had the sleep study (I actually slept!), and I was diagnosed with moderate apnea.
These days I am feeling better than I have for as long as I can remember. It's like a I re-discovered my sense of humor.
In my case, apnea is only part of the story. I am treating it with xpap and taking effective medication for the bi-polar issues. The quality of my life has definitely improved. As far as I am concerned, that is all I can ask for.
"First rule of holes: when you are in one, stop digging"
(bolded by me)Jere wrote: ... I finally went to my psychiatrist and complained about the weird stuff the zoloft was doing to my mind and my body and asked for something different. Instead, she sent me to a pharma-psychiatrist (a psychiatrist who specialized in medication). He took my history and then suggested that he do something none of the other doctors would do: he would talk to my psych, my internist and my sleep doc and together they would figure out a plan of action. I was stunned. This had never happened before.
You mean doctors can work together????????
Wow! A plan of action??????
What a concept! Doctors actually coordinating, putting their heads together, to do good!
I had not read your post before, so I am glad you added it to here. Maybe others read every single topic and post, but I don't, and I have a hunch others don't either. So thanks for adding this. I guess the moral here is that if you have to deal with the mental health community over your health, insist that they involve all your physicians and past history -- in other words the psychs should TALK AND LISTEN before jumping to prescribe things willy nilly. There is a need for mental health professionals, but like any other health professional, the quality of care varies and good care depends on the willingness of the professionals to take the patient's whole health into consideration.
Interesting. Thanks.
Linda
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Jaybo
symtoms
Long story short, everyone talked, and together they determined that my insomnia was likely not due entirely to anxiety (as I was told over and over again) but was was likely caused mostly by an inherited bi-polar-type disorder. This stunned me even more. I have a long marriage, great kids and a successful career - how could I be bi-polar? On the other hand, my mother and her side of the family have a horrific history of bi-polar, schizophrenia, depression, alcoholism and suicide (nice list isn't it?).
Jere,
What other symtoms did you have of bi-polar disorder?
Jere,
What other symtoms did you have of bi-polar disorder?
Call me crazy
Yes, call me crazy. I was diagnosed with bi-polar, ADD, GAD, etc. They all told me I was mentally sick. I was lucky enough to see a sleep doctor and get a steep study. Suddenly my whole life began to make sense to me. I was sleep deprived!!!! I had OSA and wanted to kick my others docs all in the butt. I am still struggling with OSA and treatment options, but funny thing is that now that I know my problem even my anxiety leves have dropped of considerably. I even figured out my panic attacks were not; they were sleep attacks. When I first met with my sleep doctor he told me "I stongly suspect you have sleep apnea and your other doctors were all wrong." He was right.
If I had known I would have lived this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
yet another familiar tale
I've struggled with depression since puberty or thereabouts; over the years, I've started having more and more anxiety.
I've known since I was a kid that I snored heavily. One summer at camp, the other kids threw popcorn and caramel corn at me almost all night long to keep me from sleeping 'cuz my snoring bugged them. Ever since that incident, I've avoided situations where I would sleep in the same room with anyone because I didn't want them to hear me snore and I didn't want to be made fun of.
I've tried counseling and a variety of medications (Zoloft, Prozac; now I'm on Paxil and Wellbutrin), but nothing has truly worked for me (and some things made me incredibly miserable).
Friends had suggested I might have sleep apnea after hearing me snore and stop breathing, but I was scared to have a sleep study done (that fear of being watched while I sleep) and I honestly didn't understand how serious apnea is.
But this past year I finally mentioned sleep apnea to my doctor and counselor and psychiatrist and they all agreed it was worth investigating. I saw a pulmonary doctor and he told me "go immediately to sleep study" after he looked at my jawline (recessed, I don't really have much of a chin), my nose (very small nasal passages), my weight (overweight due to lack of energy, depression, depression meds, you know the drill) and heard how tired I was all the time.
I had AHI of 87 and they put me on a CPAP that same night/day at 13 and I've been on it since September 1st and I'm feeling better enough that I want to talk to my psychiatrist about maybe tapering off one of the meds to see how I do.
Since my study, I talk about this stuff a lot. I talk on a radio station each week about television, but one week I spent a lot more time on the show and talked about sleep apnea and depression because that information really needs to get out there (the hosts of the show were fascinated by this stuff and had never really heard of the link between the two or how serious sleep apnea is).
I've known since I was a kid that I snored heavily. One summer at camp, the other kids threw popcorn and caramel corn at me almost all night long to keep me from sleeping 'cuz my snoring bugged them. Ever since that incident, I've avoided situations where I would sleep in the same room with anyone because I didn't want them to hear me snore and I didn't want to be made fun of.
I've tried counseling and a variety of medications (Zoloft, Prozac; now I'm on Paxil and Wellbutrin), but nothing has truly worked for me (and some things made me incredibly miserable).
Friends had suggested I might have sleep apnea after hearing me snore and stop breathing, but I was scared to have a sleep study done (that fear of being watched while I sleep) and I honestly didn't understand how serious apnea is.
But this past year I finally mentioned sleep apnea to my doctor and counselor and psychiatrist and they all agreed it was worth investigating. I saw a pulmonary doctor and he told me "go immediately to sleep study" after he looked at my jawline (recessed, I don't really have much of a chin), my nose (very small nasal passages), my weight (overweight due to lack of energy, depression, depression meds, you know the drill) and heard how tired I was all the time.
I had AHI of 87 and they put me on a CPAP that same night/day at 13 and I've been on it since September 1st and I'm feeling better enough that I want to talk to my psychiatrist about maybe tapering off one of the meds to see how I do.
Since my study, I talk about this stuff a lot. I talk on a radio station each week about television, but one week I spent a lot more time on the show and talked about sleep apnea and depression because that information really needs to get out there (the hosts of the show were fascinated by this stuff and had never really heard of the link between the two or how serious sleep apnea is).