Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
stupidusername
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Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by stupidusername » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am

Hi,

I realise I might get some stern words for this, but after a combination of a doctor who told me I had a clear signal of sleep apnea in my pulse oximetry before changing his mind, then a sleep apnea charity telling me (based on three nights of breathing/oximetry tests) that I definitely have sleep apnea, then the original doctor telling me that the charity were talking rubbish and that I'm a hypochondriac and to go away, I decided I needed to resolve the issue, so I bought myself a CPAP machine, with the idea of running it on low pressure (4cm H2O) to try to look at my breathing overnight. The two times I've used it, I've woken up from deep sleep, unable to breathe until I removed my mask.

The first one I accidentally erased from the machine, but the second one I am looking at on SleepHead today, and my interpretation (I think?) of it is that it looks like the machine must be going mad and blowing lots of air at me all of a sudden, which is what is startling me awake in a breathless panic. Below is the flow rate graph from SleepyHead. Am I interpreting this correctly? It seems like the flow rate just spikes in a way that wouldn't likely be caused by a problem with my breathing?

I appreciate the right course is through a doctor, but I really feel that I've run out of options, and the original doctor was so weird about it all, I really need some resolution on this and am willing to take the risk of experimenting. But I'm just trying to work out if this is a sign of something potentially dangerously wrong with the machine I've bought.

Thank you all in advance.

Image
Last edited by stupidusername on Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.


stupidusername
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by stupidusername » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:05 am

@Pugsy thank you for taking a look at my post and particularly for picking up that I messed up my Imgur link. I think I've sorted that now. I did read the FAQ and before-you-post sticky before posting, but if there's something I've missed, happy to be nudged in the right direction!

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Pugsy
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:22 am

A single zoomed in image without any other details is useless for much of anything.
Only thing I can tell you about the one image you posted is that you weren't asleep from at least 08:18:20 and maybe prior to that time frame. If you weren't asleep it's not sleep apnea or airway related.
Does your single zoomed in image look anything like the examples in my "how to post" thread?

Using minimum pressure of 4 cm...recipe for disaster for in terms of comfort for most people.

I am typing one handed...surgery on right hand...so extremely limited.
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Miss Emerita
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by Miss Emerita » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:20 am

As Pugsy mentions, most people feel air-starved at 4. Try a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 7, with EPR of 3, and post the entire chart, organized per the guidance. I think you'll be more comfortable this way and get a better read.

If you have a lot of obstructive events, that will certainly tell us something. Unfortunately, if you have very few events, that won't tell us what you want to know. Here's the reason. For some people, the settings I've suggested will actually treat their apnea successfully. In other words, even if your chart looks good, you won't know how it would have looked without PAP.
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zonker
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by zonker » Tue Sep 14, 2021 11:44 am

stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 8:05 am
@Pugsy thank you for taking a look at my post and particularly for picking up that I messed up my Imgur link. I think I've sorted that now. I did read the FAQ and before-you-post sticky before posting, but if there's something I've missed, happy to be nudged in the right direction!
need all the other data that a full chart shows in order to put your single zoomed in snapshot in perspective.

oh! and welcome to the zoo!
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palerider
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by palerider » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm

stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
I realise I might get some stern words for this, ... so I bought myself a CPAP machine,
Not for buying a cpap, you won't.
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
with the idea of running it on low pressure (4cm H2O) to try to look at my breathing overnight.
That's generally a bad idea, because of:
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
The two times I've used it, I've woken up from deep sleep, unable to breathe until I removed my mask.
4cm not being enough pressure for many (most?) people to not feel like they're suffocating.
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
Below is the flow rate graph from SleepyHead.
Sleepyhead is dead, murdered in it's sleep by it's creator during an unfortunate psychological meltdown.

Get Oscar.
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
Am I interpreting this correctly? It seems like the flow rate just spikes in a way that wouldn't likely be caused by a problem with my breathing?
You were having problems with your breathing before that. Your breathing looks like crap (yes, that's what we're here to fix). Your arousal was probably caused by breathing issues.
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
I appreciate the right course is through a doctor,
This is a self help forum. You've come to the right place to help yourself (with our help).
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
But I'm just trying to work out if this is a sign of something potentially dangerously wrong with the machine I've bought.
Very likely the only problem with the machine is that you've got the pressure set too low.

Now, here are those stern words you were afraid of, but just not for what you thought.

You've wasted some of your time, and our time, by you not reading the "READ THIS BEFORE POSTING" post that Pugsy has re-pointed you to, you haven't told us what kind of a machine you bought, you haven't read and followed the instructions on how to properly post a screenshot so that we'd have what we needed in order to answer your questions and help you (and if you had done that, we'd at least know what kind of machine you have).

Please do those things, and we'll be able to help you much better.
Get OSCAR and come chat on IRC: #cpaptalk on irc.libera.chat

Accounts to put on the foe list: mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They're often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

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zonker
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by zonker » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:38 pm

palerider wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
I appreciate the right course is through a doctor,
This is a self help forum. You've come to the right place to help yourself (with our help).
not according to apexaz.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

to the original poster: sorry, this is a private joke.
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stupidusername
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by stupidusername » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm

Thank you everyone for the replies! I could have sworn that I added my machine to my profile as instructed in the sticky, but I'll check it tomorrow. It's PR System One. There isn't much to see in the full shot as I had pretty much only just got properly to sleep when I woke up with a start feeling like I was suffocating. I'll try to get a longer session on it tonight, then, and post the full screen ASAP.

Thank you again everyone for chipping in, and apologies for not getting it all posted in a way you could efficiently help!

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palerider
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by palerider » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:04 pm

zonker wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:38 pm
palerider wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:03 pm
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:34 am
I appreciate the right course is through a doctor,
This is a self help forum. You've come to the right place to help yourself (with our help).
not according to apexaz.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

to the original poster: sorry, this is a private joke.
Given that you're still here, and that banned luser isn't... we all know how that worked out ;)
Get OSCAR and come chat on IRC: #cpaptalk on irc.libera.chat

Accounts to put on the foe list: mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They're often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

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palerider
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by palerider » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:07 pm

stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm
Thank you everyone for the replies! I could have sworn that I added my machine to my profile as instructed in the sticky, but I'll check it tomorrow. It's PR System One.
There are many of those. Which one, exactly?
Look on the bottom, there's a REF number, what is it?
Hopefully you're aware that they've been recalled, all of them, ever.
stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm
here isn't much to see in the full shot as I had pretty much only just got properly to sleep when I woke up with a start feeling like I was suffocating.
Let us know what it is *before* tonight, so we can perhaps offer some suggestions about what settings to use to have a more successful night.

At the very least, I'd suggest turning the pressure up to 7. If it's a 550 or 560 model, then set the min to 7 and max to 20.
Get OSCAR and come chat on IRC: #cpaptalk on irc.libera.chat

Accounts to put on the foe list: mper!?, DreamDiver, Geer1, almostadoctor, sleepgeek, ajack, stom, mogy, D.H., They're often post misleading, timewasting stuff.

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Pugsy
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by Pugsy » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:29 pm

stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm
I could have sworn that I added my machine to my profile as instructed in the sticky,
You may have missed this part in the sticky about equipment profile.
Edit 5/13/2021....disregard my number 1 step here...the Equipment Profile link is broken...they won't show up anyway.
See this explanation.
https://www.cpaptalk.com/viewtopic/t181 ... ryone.html
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zonker
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by zonker » Tue Sep 14, 2021 6:33 pm

stupidusername wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:52 pm
Thank you again everyone for chipping in, and apologies for not getting it all posted in a way you could efficiently help!
no apologies needed, sir or madam. you weren't born knowing this stuff.
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2.
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stupidusername
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by stupidusername » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:26 am

Thanks again everyone! I will reply to the individual comments in a moment. First just a couple of bits of background and results from last night (based on your suggested settings).

Firstly, I bought this machine a couple of years ago, tried it once, woke up feeling that I was suffocating, but it was dark so I couldn't figure out I had the machine on until I found the light switch by which time I was scarily out of breath. Got a bit scared of it and put it away for a couple of years.

Then a couple of nights ago, my girlfriend filmed the sounds I make in my sleep (I've posted it here https://youtu.be/sV5ofAVm0dE in case it's of use. By the time she got her phone out, she only captured a few breaths before I stirred and you can hear me rolling over or something.)

That got me motivated to give it another go, so I got it out yesterday early morning, but again as soon as I fell asleep I woke up gasping for air.

I tried it with your suggested (7cm H20) settings last night and had no issues!! Thank you! But I felt I slept very lightly because of it, so would like to give it a few more goes.

Here are the results from last night (hopefully I got the format right this time). Most/all of the "apneas" it detected were while I was awake (I'm fairly sure). So I guess there's no sign of it on there. Though, I guess (as per Miss Emerita) the pressure could have fixed it. Definitely very interested in any thoughts people have. I'm quite happy to discover I do or do not have it, but just want to figure it out since I've been told such different things!! And so it's always been at the back of my mind.

I'm aware there is a leakage issue. Trying to figure out how to make that better without having to buy a whole new mask just for a couple of nights' experimenting.

Machine is REMStar Auto INTL -- REF 561 P. Mask is Amara View.
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stupidusername
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Re: Is this apnea, psychological response, or a faulty machine?

Post by stupidusername » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:30 am

Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:20 am
Try a minimum of 7 and a maximum of 7, with EPR of 3
Thank you! That fixed it! I didn't do the EPR bit -- I think that's the equivalent of flex on the Philips Respironics? I always find that my breathing changes just as I fall asleep and the machine is then pushing against me for a moment and it wakes me up as soon as I fall asleep. But I slept well-ish on a steady 7 (little light). So that seemed to be the right setting!
Miss Emerita wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:20 am
In other words, even if your chart looks good, you won't know how it would have looked without PAP.
Ugh. Yes, that is why I had hoped it would work at 4cm, but I think you're right, that's why it was messing with my breathing.