Taping mouth

[bobdylan]

Hi i tape my mouth of a night , what i am asking is it safe to tape your lips together of a evening to make a seal so no air can escape ,am i doing things wrong ,? Thank you for your advice ,

[Jay Aitchsee]

Hi Bob,
If you do a search, you'll find many, many posts on taping. Some people tape horizontally, some vertically, some leave a slit for air to escape some don't. Most people use something like 3M micropore tape, some use painter's tape. Some people say it's safe, some do not.
My personal opinion is that a full face mask solves most problems that people are trying to address by taping. I've done both and I prefer the FFM.

[Julie]

But to answer your Q, it's safe, especially if you fold over a 1/8" edge at one end (of a horizontal taping) for a quick release grab. You won't suffocate though, and when is the last time you actually threw up in your sleep anyway? Many people tape every night - for years.

[bobdylan]

I thank you , yesterday i was told you can go into a Coma , it put the wind up me Thank you All the Best for Xmas , x

[jweeks]

… it's safe, especially if you fold over a 1/8" edge at one end (of a horizontal taping) for a quick release grab.

Hi,

I use tape every hight. I would go so far as to say it is safe. It has risks. But everything in life has risks. You have to compare the risks and make the best decision. For me, it was the only way I could live with my CPAP given that I wasn't successful with a full face mask, and I couldn't stop leaks with a chin strap. If I compared the risk of no CPAP to the risk of taping, taping was a winner by a mile.

You do want to make fold on each end so you can quickly remove the tape if needed. Also, I found that putting Vasoline on my lips keeps the tape from sticking to the skin on my lips. If I don't do that, the tape would tear the skin on my lips, which is very painful. I use 2 inch wide 3M micropore paper tape, which I find at Walgreens and CVS. Walgreens runs sales on it every 90 days or so. It is kind of expensive, so watch for a sale and stock up.

-john-

[JDS74]

Hi Bobdylan:

The issue that is of concern with regard to taping while using a nasal mask is what happens during a power failure.
Nasal mask unlike FFM and oral masks do not have what is called an anti-asphyxia valve. The purpose of this valve is to allow the patient to continue to breathe room air in the event of a power failure.

Without such a valve, when the power fails, the only fresh air you get comes in part through the mask vent and through the tube all the way down to the blower.

This means that the percentage of CO2 in the air you are breathing increases dramatically and can lead to significant levels of CO2 in you blood if you do it too long.

So - for the most part the power doesn't fail so it's not an issue.
And, most folks will wake up fairly quickly because of the much larger effort to breathe that comes when the power is off. For them, it's not much of an issue.
Some folks don't wake up very easily under these circumstances and they are at risk if their mouths are taped shut. I'm one of those. I had one power failure and looking at the data later, it showed that I didn't wake up for 45 minutes. Without an anti-asphyxia valve on my mask ( mine has one ), the consequences to me would have been severe.

It is possible to get just the anti-asphyxia valve from a Fisher-Paykel mask and graft it on to the mask tube where it attaches to the main CPAP hose and avoid the problem. The easiest way to get one it to ask for one in the forum from someone in the UK who uses F-P masks and has an old, ready to discard one they would be willing to send to you. If you were in the US,I'd send you one. BTW, they don't seem to wear out so you only need one.

[Sir NoddinOff]

Hey Bob, I saw you at the Civic Auditorium about five years ago... great concert! Regarding your safety fears,read this:

This is mainly for nasal mask users. Here's how I use 3M NexCare multipore plastic tape to tape my mouth by using a 'rip-away slit' which makes taping as safe as a chinstrap. I know, a big claim but give it a try!

Here's how I do it. I put a long strip completely over my lips in a horizontal fashion while compressing my lips firmly together... I fold over pull-off tabs at either end, just for ease of removal. Next I take a VERY dull steak knife with a somewhat blunted point which I keep in a bedstand drawer and carefully cut a horizontal slit about a 1/2 inch long (while the tape is on my lips) in the middle of the tape where the center of my lips seal together. The blade is so dull it doesn't damage my lips at all; it's a very dull knife but you do need a bit of a dull point to get thru the tape. A butter knife just doesn't seem to work.

Here's the beauty part: If I have to get my mouth open quickly (only once in a year have I had to do this) all I have to do is force my lips apart and typically the tape easily rips itself down each side of the slit and my mouth pops completely open. I also do this every morning to get the tape off and only about 5% of the time does the tape resist splitting... if that happens all I have to do is force the tip of my tongue between my lips and out thru the slit OR poke the slit with the tip of a finger - then it easily rips apart. It comes off very nicely in the morning with no pain. Another good point: If I need to take a pill in the middle of the night it's convenient because I just slip it thru the slit and use a soda straw and water to swallow it. Try this method while awake the first time and I think you'll find it's pretty easy to do. I use straight Palmolive dishwashing soap to get any sticky residue off of my face and leave it on for a few minutes while I make tea or whatever. BTW, I've never had any leaks thru my mouth or lips using this method. CAUTION: I wouldn't try this with any other tape than the 3M tape I mentioned because I don't know how easily it'd rip. Also, don't cover up the half inch slit with another piece of tape or you've just defeated the whole method!!! Final tip: to get the tape to stick all night wash your face with soap and water and rinse repeatedly then dry thoroughly. Don't use soap with any lotion in it.

[Gerald]

Bob............

I've been taping for many years....every night. I consider it very safe....and it's so comfortable that I wouldn't consider a FFM.

The power has failed a half dozen times in the last five years or so......and in every case, it was a "non-event". I simply woke up....very gently.....and removed the mask. There were no ill effects whatsoever.

I use #2080EL Blue 1.88" wide 3M painter's tape....purchased at Lowe's. I've tried other brands, but this product is the best. The adhesive is better than other brands.

Every night, I use a strip about 8" long......fold the ends to make 1/2" handles......apply securely....and quickly go to sleep in five minutes or less.

To comfortably remove, I pull one end of the tape parallel to my face...not perpendicular. It's off in 2-seconds or less with zero discomfort.

I have seriously considered the possible danger of inhaling my own vomit......and I consider the danger to be close to zero. I'm not an idiot....and I wouldn't consider using tape when nauseated. Nausea has never been an issue for me in all the years I've used tape.

Using tape has increased my overall comfort level......and helps keep my AHI average at approximately 1.0.

My CPAP therapy is every successful....and I credit the Blue tape with helping to make it so.

Gerald

[poppi2]

Hi Bobdylan:

The issue that is of concern with regard to taping while using a nasal mask is what happens during a power failure.
Nasal mask unlike FFM and oral masks do not have what is called an anti-asphyxia valve. The purpose of this valve is to allow the patient to continue to breathe room air in the event of a power failure.

Without such a valve, when the power fails, the only fresh air you get comes in part through the mask vent and through the tube all the way down to the blower.

Concerns about rebreathing in the event of machine, or power failure, led me to add a makeshift anti-asphyxiation valve viewtopic.php?f=1&t=75419&p=690384#p690334. It adds a little weight, but I use a PapCap and route the mask hose over my head. Good luck, Earl

[archangle]

Taping your mouth risks suffocation or other problems if the machine quits blowing and you don't wake up while wearing a nasal mask. You will be rebreathing your own exhaled air. Oxygen will decrease and CO2 will increase. This can cause you to sink deeper into unconsciousness and stop breathing. This is why all full face masks to have an anti-asphyxia valve.

Most people will wake up and be able to take the mask or tape off, but it's not a sure thing.

There is a risk of aspiration pneumonia if you vomit before you can get the tape off. Aspiration pneumonia is very bad. Google it.

Many people tape anyway despite the risks and have no problems. The risk may be small, but you'll probably be doing this for the rest of your life so risks add up.

[Gerald]

Archangel......

I agree with everything in your post except the last four words.

Each instance of taping is separate from all other instances. Therefore, the risks do not add up.

I have considered all the dangers you have written about.......and I believe the risks to be so negligible that they aren't worth talking about.

Gerald

[SuddenlyWornOut45]

That is the best description of WHY mouth taping is never recommended by sleep medicine specialists I have ever heard, anywhere. I did not know the info you describe, in fact. I was just told "mouth taping is potentially very dangerous and dont do it." I know lots of people do mouth tape, I tried it a little way back in 2007 when I first was on CPAP. I did a lot of experimentation with stuff those first six months. I found mouth taping absolutely worthless and a PITA.

The CO2 buildup, that is like C02 "blackout" that old time SCUBA divers sometimes experienced when using primitive type SCUBA diving equipment? You'd be underwater, breathing air and C02 would build up with no symptoms and youd think everything was fine but BOOM youd black out and maybe drown underwater. It used to happen in SCUBA diving a lot back in SCUBA's early days, in the forties, fifties and sixties.

Also, hyperventilating and doing hypoxic swims can do the same thing. Like, attempting 25 to 50 meter nonstop underwater swims, you can black out and part of it is C02 buildup from hyperventilating while you were on the deck before you entered the water.

Im impressed by your explanation. Thanks, I learned something.

Erric

Hi Bobdylan:

The issue that is of concern with regard to taping while using a nasal mask is what happens during a power failure.
Nasal mask unlike FFM and oral masks do not have what is called an anti-asphyxia valve. The purpose of this valve is to allow the patient to continue to breathe room air in the event of a power failure.

Without such a valve, when the power fails, the only fresh air you get comes in part through the mask vent and through the tube all the way down to the blower.

This means that the percentage of CO2 in the air you are breathing increases dramatically and can lead to significant levels of CO2 in you blood if you do it too long.

So - for the most part the power doesn't fail so it's not an issue.
And, most folks will wake up fairly quickly because of the much larger effort to breathe that comes when the power is off. For them, it's not much of an issue.
Some folks don't wake up very easily under these circumstances and they are at risk if their mouths are taped shut. I'm one of those. I had one power failure and looking at the data later, it showed that I didn't wake up for 45 minutes. Without an anti-asphyxia valve on my mask ( mine has one ), the consequences to me would have been severe.

It is possible to get just the anti-asphyxia valve from a Fisher-Paykel mask and graft it on to the mask tube where it attaches to the main CPAP hose and avoid the problem. The easiest way to get one it to ask for one in the forum from someone in the UK who uses F-P masks and has an old, ready to discard one they would be willing to send to you. If you were in the US,I'd send you one. BTW, they don't seem to wear out so you only need one.

[Loreena]

Also, get yourself a Power Warning Alarm like the one I have: http://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls ... +off+alarm

[suncoaster]

I tried taping a number of times but didn't like the result. Much better, I've found, is to cut a small piece of soft, thin leather in an oval-shaped piece that covers your mouth from bottom of your nose to a bout the middle of your chin with about a half-inch overlap at each end of your mouth. Attach an elastic band joining the ends. Make it just long enough to slip over your head. It'll feel a little loose in position, but with the mask (I use a ResMed nose mask) over top it holds everything just fine. This stops mouth breathing completely and allows emergency breathing if the CPAP stops. Give it a try, it works for me and costs virtually nothing to make.

[Lukie]

this is all kind of spooky like the stuff you see and hear about in those naughty stores that you have to be 18 to shop in. I would be scared to take any risk of asphixiation