Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
- raggedykat
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Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
My sleep study report states that my central apnea clusters have "some features suggestive of Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern". My doctor never mentioned this to me and when I look up the condition it really scares me. Anyone else out there have this on their test results?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi
Mohandas Gandhi
- BleepingBeauty
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
Cheyne Stokes was part of my diagnosis, too. AFAIK, it indicates an irregular breathing pattern. What is scaring you about it?raggedykat wrote:My sleep study report states that my central apnea clusters have "some features suggestive of Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern". My doctor never mentioned this to me and when I look up the condition it really scares me. Anyone else out there have this on their test results?
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Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. )
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Dx 11/07: AHI 107, central apnea, Cheyne Stokes respiration, moderate-severe O2 desats. (Simple OSA would be too easy. )
PR S1 ASV 950, DreamWear mask, F&P 150 humidifier, O2 @ 2L.
Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
It can sound scary if you've read that it can accompany other symptoms in a seriously ill patient, but on its own, if treated properly, does not necessarily mean something scary will happen to you. In itself, it's just a symptom, but if you're otherwise not 'sick', then it doesn't mean you will get sick (or sicker) on it's own.
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- raggedykat
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
The articles I read were stating that if you had this condition you probably had an underlying illness such as congestive heart failure. And the cpap posts I found talked about needing to use an apap rather than a straight cpap machine to treat it. My doctor does not read any data, only goes by how you feel, and never said anything to me about this being part of my diagnosis. So how do I know if the condition is being 'fixed' by my cpap use. I have a pacemaker, do I need to say something to my cardiologist about this?
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi
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- ricochetv1
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
I would...raggedykat wrote:The articles I read were stating that if you had this condition you probably had an underlying illness such as congestive heart failure. And the cpap posts I found talked about needing to use an apap rather than a straight cpap machine to treat it. My doctor does not read any data, only goes by how you feel, and never said anything to me about this being part of my diagnosis. So how do I know if the condition is being 'fixed' by my cpap use. I have a pacemaker, do I need to say something to my cardiologist about this?
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- timbalionguy
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
The usual disclaimers of not being a doctor......
Most of the time when Cheyne-Stokes breathing is mentioned in connection with xPAP, the patient is assigned one of the more advanced BiPAP 'servo ventilator' machines. It could be that yous Cheyne-Stokes breathing pattern is not severe enough that normal pressure therapy should correct the cause-- an imbalance between oxygen and carbon dioxide in your blood. (SWS discusses this at length in a number of posts.) And yes, I would definitely discuss this with your cardiologist. It could be that the steady rhythm of your pacemaker is causing your blood gasses to 'oscillate' around their correct values, modulated by your breathing pattern. If this is the case, xPAP could have a profound effect on you, and needs to be carefully monitored. Although many people here (including myself) mess with our pressure settings all the time, I would consider you to be a case where you should consult your doctor before adjusting pressure.
Most of the time when Cheyne-Stokes breathing is mentioned in connection with xPAP, the patient is assigned one of the more advanced BiPAP 'servo ventilator' machines. It could be that yous Cheyne-Stokes breathing pattern is not severe enough that normal pressure therapy should correct the cause-- an imbalance between oxygen and carbon dioxide in your blood. (SWS discusses this at length in a number of posts.) And yes, I would definitely discuss this with your cardiologist. It could be that the steady rhythm of your pacemaker is causing your blood gasses to 'oscillate' around their correct values, modulated by your breathing pattern. If this is the case, xPAP could have a profound effect on you, and needs to be carefully monitored. Although many people here (including myself) mess with our pressure settings all the time, I would consider you to be a case where you should consult your doctor before adjusting pressure.
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- raggedykat
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
And my doctor doesn't read data. He goes by how you feel. So how is he going to help?Although many people here (including myself) mess with our pressure settings all the time, I would consider you to be a case where you should consult your doctor before adjusting pressure.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi
Mohandas Gandhi
- timbalionguy
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
First of all, get a different doctor. Sounds like you are not getting the attention you need, especially in your case.raggedykat wrote:And my doctor doesn't read data. He goes by how you feel. So how is he going to help?Although many people here (including myself) mess with our pressure settings all the time, I would consider you to be a case where you should consult your doctor before adjusting pressure.
And yes, I would discuss pressure changes and everything else with your cardiologist. I bet he can help you more than that deadbeat sleep doctor. Doctors like that should be put to sleep!
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- raggedykat
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- Location: PA
Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
I will continue to try and find a doctor that reads data. I started to do that when I first found out that my doctor didn't but quit when I was able to get into my machine and get the data myself. Oh, and my cardiologist. I asked him his opinon on something with my sleep study when I first had it done and he told me, "I don't comment on test results for tests that weren't ordered by me". My family doctor seems to be the one who is the most willing to help me with these issues, I'm thinking because she doesn't consider herself a "god" in the medical field, so I will get with her and see what she can recommend. Thanks everyone!
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
Mohandas Gandhi
Mohandas Gandhi
- ricochetv1
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Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
Wow. It always amazes me when I see the level of apathy that grows within the medical field. I blame insurance companies and frivolous lawsuits, myself. Makes the Drs. scared to comment on anything they're not directly involved with. Maybe it's not so much apathy as it is self-preservation. Here's what I would suggest... call your sleep Dr. and give him the ultimatum that either he needs to become involved with your therapy, especially considering your "unusual" circumstances (and I mean that strictly as in "not of the usual circumstances") and for HIM to start reading your data and coordinating with your cardiologist (who will happily talk to other doctors, I'm sure, out of professional courtesy if nothing else), or you'll be finding another doctor. Never forget that YOU are the boss when it comes to your care. Doctors can make any kind of suggestions and recommendations they can, but it's you that has the ultimate and final say in all aspects of your treatment. Sometimes you have to be the one to get the Drs. talking to each other, and who knows... you may be the slap to the face your sleep dr. needs to start providing better care for his patients, so you might end-up doing a favor for many people.raggedykat wrote:I will continue to try and find a doctor that reads data. I started to do that when I first found out that my doctor didn't but quit when I was able to get into my machine and get the data myself. Oh, and my cardiologist. I asked him his opinon on something with my sleep study when I first had it done and he told me, "I don't comment on test results for tests that weren't ordered by me". My family doctor seems to be the one who is the most willing to help me with these issues, I'm thinking because she doesn't consider herself a "god" in the medical field, so I will get with her and see what she can recommend. Thanks everyone!
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Additional Comments: Pressure 6-9. Looks like I got off relatively easy. |
Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
I would dump that cardiologist faster that a hot potato. Because the results in tests not ordered by him can give him important info about you health, and he is wilfully closing his eyes to that. If he does not realize that a cardiologist should order a sleep study, and can learn from one he did not order, then he is ignorant.raggedykat wrote: I asked him his opinon on something with my sleep study when I first had it done and he told me, "I don't comment on test results for tests that weren't ordered by me". My family doctor seems to be the one who is the most willing to help me with these issues, I'm thinking because she doesn't consider herself a "god" in the medical field, so I will get with her and see what she can recommend. Thanks everyone!
According to your previous posts, your central apneas only appeared on titration, and it was about those that they said they have ""some features suggestive of Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern". Remember, you had more centrals on BIPAP than you did on CPAP - so this pattern may have been induced by the treatment they attempted, and have nothing to do with your heart.
If my data were good, and I felt well, I really wouldn't worry about that pattern which appeared during titration.
Some people just need time to get used to CPAP, and eventually have less central apnea as well. You may well be one of those.
But I would get another cardiologist regardless.
O.
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- ricochetv1
- Posts: 181
- Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2009 4:37 pm
Re: Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern
I agree, somewhat. If you've had a good history with this cardiologist, other than this little bit of closed-mindedness, I'd give him a chance to pull his head out of his ass before you move on. Otherwise, yeah. Dump him.ozij wrote:I would dump that cardiologist faster that a hot potato. Because the results in tests not ordered by him can give him important info about you health, and he is wilfully closing his eyes to that. If he does not realize that a cardiologist should order a sleep study, and can learn from one he did not order, then he is ignorant.raggedykat wrote: I asked him his opinon on something with my sleep study when I first had it done and he told me, "I don't comment on test results for tests that weren't ordered by me". My family doctor seems to be the one who is the most willing to help me with these issues, I'm thinking because she doesn't consider herself a "god" in the medical field, so I will get with her and see what she can recommend. Thanks everyone!
According to your previous posts, your central apneas only appeared on titration, and it was about those that they said they have ""some features suggestive of Cheyne Stokes Breathing Pattern". Remember, you had more centrals on BIPAP than you did on CPAP - so this pattern may have been induced by the treatment they attempted, and have nothing to do with your heart.
If my data were good, and I felt well, I really wouldn't worry about that pattern which appeared during titration.
Some people just need time to get used to CPAP, and eventually have less central apnea as well. You may well be one of those.
But I would get another cardiologist regardless.
O.
When I had my titration, I had one central apnea event. It was toward the end of the study, while they were blowing 12 cm of air down my throat. The event happened about 30 min. before I officially woke up. So, their computer detected a central apnea. Here's what happened... I started waking up and felt all that pressure. I somewhat-consciously stopped breathing for a moment while my brain was evaluating the circumstances, finally remembered where I was, and started breathing again. So, yeah... take the report with a grain of salt, and make sure you cross-reference everything in that report with what you were actually doing. The only results that can be truly trusted are those obtained while you were unconscious.
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Mask: Mirage Liberty™ Full Face CPAP Mask with Nasal Pillows With Headgear |
Humidifier: HumidAire H4i™ Heated Humidifier |
Additional Comments: Pressure 6-9. Looks like I got off relatively easy. |