Solution for CPAP/APAP wakeup fatigue and grogginess

[randomCPAPguy]

Hi,

I’ve never really posted, though I have read through some sleep apnea forums to try to find a solution to feeling extremely groggy from your CPAP or APAP machine. I have a ResMed Airsense 10 that I started using 6 months ago. I definitely have enjoyed the benefits, but I found that I was sleeping through alarms and taking hours to feel normal again. Prior to my ResMed machine, I could literally wake up at any time with an internal alarm clock in my head if I knew when I needed to be up. So, after realizing this new problem, I started putting triple Keurig doses (yes, cold black un-fresh coffee) next to my bed ready to go, multiple alarms, etc. I read on several forums about some mobile apps that help to get you out of your deep sleep gradually using progressively increasing sounds and white noise. I tried all of these, but none of these really worked (and in addition, the alarms woke up others in the house.) I would often fall asleep even after downing the coffee, turning on lights, etc.

I don’t know all the science behind it, but I know these machines get you into a really deep sleep state, and it is somewhat artificially regulated because it’s not the same sleep you’d get naturally. I believe I read that the sleep cycles are fixed for something like 30-45 minutes.

So here is the solution I found:

I went on Amazon and bought a Smart Wi-Fi electrical switch. There are many on there, and I’m not trying to peddle any brand. I believe the one I bought was called (Edited by mod : to remove brand name). The switch is a simple on/off circuit that you can control with your mobile device, and you can also set a schedule. So, if I want to wake up at 7:00 AM, I set the schedule on the smart switch to shut off (hence turn off the machine) at around 5:30....I’m sure I could experiment more to find the range of possibilities, but that may be for each individual. At 5:30, my ResMed shuts off, though I still sleep just fine and don’t wake up. During that time, though, my sleep seems to transition to a more natural state. Then a low volume alarm or smart phone vibration at 7:00 wakes me up and I am much more alert, ready to start the day like I was prior to using my machine.

Hope this helps.

[Julie]

Spam is not allowed here... but on the off chance you really believe your story, has it occurred to you that it's important for everyone to wake up naturally? To experience all the stages of sleep including transitions to sleep and waking up? We use software here to monitor whole nights in many respects and one of those is the transition period between e.g. REM and waking... both of which are important to proper and healthy sleep. Your 'fix' is appalling... and adding black (acidic) coffee right when awakening could also defeat the benefits of Cpap that so often 'cure' or improve acid reflux many here have as a result of OSA. Waking forcefully before our bodies and brains are ready is wrong, just wrong.

[Pugsy]

Hmmm.... I didn't look at this post closely enough.

That's the dumbest idea I have heard and I have heard some lulus.

Product name removed...just in case this is more spam than stupid idea.

by randomCPAPguy » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:00 pm
Hi,

I’ve never really posted, though I have read through some sleep apnea forums to try to find a solution to feeling extremely groggy from your CPAP or APAP machine. I have a ResMed Airsense 10 that I started using 6 months ago. I definitely have enjoyed the benefits, but I found that I was sleeping through alarms and taking hours to feel normal again. Prior to my ResMed machine, I could literally wake up at any time with an internal alarm clock in my head if I knew when I needed to be up. So, after realizing this new problem, I started putting triple Keurig doses (yes, cold black un-fresh coffee) next to my bed ready to go, multiple alarms, etc. I read on several forums about some mobile apps that help to get you out of your deep sleep gradually using progressively increasing sounds and white noise. I tried all of these, but none of these really worked (and in addition, the alarms woke up others in the house.) I would often fall asleep even after downing the coffee, turning on lights, etc.

I don’t know all the science behind it, but I know these machines get you into a really deep sleep state, and it is somewhat artificially regulated because it’s not the same sleep you’d get naturally. I believe I read that the sleep cycles are fixed for something like 30-45 minutes.

So here is the solution I found:

I went on Amazon and bought a Smart Wi-Fi electrical switch. There are many on there, and I’m not trying to peddle any brand. I believe the one I bought was called (Edited by mod : to remove brand name). The switch is a simple on/off circuit that you can control with your mobile device, and you can also set a schedule. So, if I want to wake up at 7:00 AM, I set the schedule on the smart switch to shut off (hence turn off the machine) at around 5:30....I’m sure I could experiment more to find the range of possibilities, but that may be for each individual. At 5:30, my ResMed shuts off, though I still sleep just fine and don’t wake up. During that time, though, my sleep seems to transition to a more natural state. Then a low volume alarm or smart phone vibration at 7:00 wakes me up and I am much more alert, ready to start the day like I was prior to using my machine.

Hope this helps.

[TASmart]

I am thinking this guy needs to go to be earlier.

[randomCPAPguy]

Spam is not allowed here... but on the off chance you really believe your story, has it occurred to you that it's important for everyone to wake up naturally? To experience all the stages of sleep including transitions to sleep and waking up? We use software here to monitor whole nights in many respects and one of those is the transition period between e.g. REM and waking... both of which are important to proper and healthy sleep. Your 'fix' is appalling... and adding black (acidic) coffee right when awakening could also defeat the benefits of Cpap that so often 'cure' or improve acid reflux many here have as a result of OSA. Waking forcefully before our bodies and brains are ready is wrong, just wrong.

I'm sorry...but you are kidding me? Spam? I really couldn't care less about the name of the product, and I hardly think I would have blurbed about the name in a long-winded post if that was my agenda. Off chance my story is believed? What a hostile group here. You clearly didn't even actually read my post....I clearly said that I had tried drinking coffee to help with my morning zombie-like state that happens with my PAP machine. My point was that even coffee didn't help to get me any energy for hours.

To simplify: I've had problems waking up. I googled it and found several forums where people had the same problems of sleeping through alarm clocks and feeling groggy and too tired for hours when using a PAP machine. I even saw several threads were people were asking if you could set a timer for your PAP machine to stop or lower pressure so that you aren't awoken in a very deep sleep (for many of us who need to wake up at a certain time.) PAP machines do not have timers. I am merely offering a solution, which is a timed power switch, many of which are on the market. And I was surprised that I was not even awoken and seemed to sleep well even after it was turned off an hour or so before I woke up...and that I felt way more normal and less hazy because of this.

Has it occurred to me that it's important for everyone to wake up naturally? What does that even mean? Of course it does, and that's exactly what I'm trying to do, which is return to my non PAP-induced sleep state for an hour so before waking up, rather than waking up like a zombie.

[randomCPAPguy]

Hmmm.... I didn't look at this post closely enough.

That's the dumbest idea I have heard and I have heard some lulus.

Product name removed...just in case this is more spam than stupid idea.

Please remove my post or have a moderator do it. This board is a bunch of hostile jerks. I was seriously looking to help people, as I've seen threads about people sleeping through alarm clocks, as I have. I have many people spending like $50 on apps that are supposed to help you wake up and not feel so zonked out. This simple electrical timer switch has worked great for me...I still get almost all of my deep PAP-induced sleep and then wake up feeling like I have some energy, like I used to way back. Dumbest idea? My sense is that you, and several others, did not even read the entire post. No idea why everyone is so hostile. It's a simple solution to a problem...an auto-shutoff of your PAP machine while you are still sleeping but approaching your wake-up time, giving you a chance to wake up and not feel like a zombie, for those of us who have that experience.

[Selenium1%]

To Original Poster. This forum has helped many apnea sufferers. Generally the members are very knowledgeable, expert, caring people. Sometimes if a poster does not share the generally accepted positions of the forum, the responses can be critical. I urge you to stick around and benefit from their expertise. The members care about the well being of others.

[Pugsy]

Dumb idea because what do you do when you sleep with the mask on and machine off at 5:30 AM and don't wake up until 7:00 AM??

Take the mask off and go back to sleep and sleep with untreated sleep apnea???

Sleep with the mask on for an hour and a half but no cpap pressure because the machine is off and thus no therapy???

That's why it is a dumb idea.

If you sleep and you have OSA.... you wear the mask with the machine on...plain and simple all the time you are asleep. Even naps.
You don't sleep without either or you are having all the little goodies that go along with untreated sleep apnea.
Now if you are okay for 90 minutes of choking and oxygen drops and stress on your heart..that's your business but it's bad business.

I am a moderator and I didn't read the entire post thoroughly when I approved the new account. I can't see the entire post initially from the preview screen if it is more than 5 or 6 lines.
I have read it now several times after I saw what Julie said and before I even posted.

It's worse than spam...it's promoting sleeping without proper cpap therapy at all times and that is potentially dangerous.

Yeah...sleeping without my cpap for 90 minutes...that's going to let me wake up real energized when I wake up "naturally" gasping, snoring, with my oxygen levels down around 70 from the apnea events that will come fast and furious. Not to mention the massive headache I am guaranteed to have from the blood gases imbalance.

I am leaving the thread for now... Depends on further responses from veteran forum members though.
Does any veteran forum member think I am wrong here in saying this is a stupid idea? I admit I am rather prejudiced for treating my OSA all night long instead of part of the night.

[HoseCrusher]

The issue is a matter of perspective...

randomCPAPguy is under the impression that CPAP somehow induces a deep state of sleep. This is not correct. If he is sleeping through alarms, he simply needs to start sleeping earlier so his body can repair itself and wake up naturally.

It is always attractive to try to regulate nature using alarms and so on. This gives the impression that the candle can be burned on both ends and somehow last twice as long. Nature is a hard taskmaster and you end up paying for foolish ideas.

Shutting the machine off prior to waking puts your body in a state of distress. All of the sudden your airway collapses and you struggle to breathe. Yes, this will help you wake up, but there has to be a better way.

The timer is a good idea. A better approach is to set the timer to shut off your computer and TV and radio at something like 9 pm so you can wind down to get ready for sleep. If you are in bed by 10 and have easy breathing your natural rhythm will kick in and gently arouse you at around 6 or 7 am.

If you are recovering from illness you may need 10 - 12 hours of sleep. If you have a schedule to follow this means that you need to go to bed earlier.

Keeping your airway open is a benefit. It should be exploited to the extreme.

Suffocating yourself awake is not brilliant...

[Julie]

I disagree about the 10-12 hrs, recovery or not, but I'm sorry if I gave you a bad impression. When newbies show up with company names to rave about something we get suspicious, but don't go away mad - stay and learn more here... maybe we can help you without your needing extreme measures. I can understand that you thought you'd made a great discovery, but maybe it's just a little sideways and we can probably help you get better sleep more naturally.

[palerider]

Hmmm.... I didn't look at this post closely enough.

That's the dumbest idea I have heard and I have heard some lulus.

Product name removed...just in case this is more spam than stupid idea.

Please remove my post or have a moderator do it. This board is a bunch of hostile jerks. I was seriously looking to help people,

The best way you can HELP people is to tell them not to do something as STUPID as your "idea".

Hope you don't kill yourself....

We're hostile to stupid things that can harm people... and you fall into that category.

[palerider]

Does any veteran forum member think I am wrong here in saying this is a stupid idea? I admit I am rather prejudiced for treating my OSA all night long instead of part of the night.

I think it's a ridiculously STUPID idea and you should either delete the thread, or put something like:

WARNING, THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY STUPID IDEA,
FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR HEALTH,
DO NOT DO WHAT'S SUGGESTED IN THIS POST!

at the top of the first post.

[zonker]

The issue is a matter of perspective...

randomCPAPguy is under the impression that CPAP somehow induces a deep state of sleep. This is not correct. If he is sleeping through alarms, he simply needs to start sleeping earlier so his body can repair itself and wake up naturally.

even worse, in my opinion, he says this-

"I don’t know all the science behind it, but I know these machines get you into a really deep sleep state, and it is somewhat artificially regulated because it’s not the same sleep you’d get naturally. I believe I read that the sleep cycles are fixed for something like 30-45 minutes."

not the same sleep you'd get naturally??? god, i hope not. the reason i'm on apap is to IMPROVE what my sleep was like!

i'd say to the OP that he should stick around here, ask some questions and get his therapy dialed in. soon, he won't need to have alarms set to wake up.

[zonker]

I am a moderator and I didn't read the entire post thoroughly when I approved the new account. I can't see the entire post initially from the preview screen if it is more than 5 or 6 lines.
I have read it now several times after I saw what Julie said and before I even posted.

It's worse than spam...it's promoting sleeping without proper cpap therapy at all times and that is potentially dangerous.

Yeah...sleeping without my cpap for 90 minutes...that's going to let me wake up real energized when I wake up "naturally" gasping, snoring, with my oxygen levels down around 70 from the apnea events that will come fast and furious. Not to mention the massive headache I am guaranteed to have from the blood gases imbalance.

I am leaving the thread for now... Depends on further responses from veteran forum members though.
Does any veteran forum member think I am wrong here in saying this is a stupid idea? I admit I am rather prejudiced for treating my OSA all night long instead of part of the night.

i don't consider myself a veteran. but i have hung around here for a number of years. what you have said is in keeping with what i've read here for three years. this forum exists to treat apnea, not to circumvent it. and this gentleman is trying to shortcut something that he really doesn't understand.

again, to the OP- please come back and let the veterans here help you fine tune your therapy!

[Pugsy]

Forum veteran....anyone a member here more than a week is a good enough veteran in this situation.
Just don't want a bunch of brand new accounts trying to post and tell me what a witch I am.