SoClean 2 machine with APAP

I have read multiple posts about the SoClean sanitizing machine. I did not see any post or review about using it with an APAP machine. Even those users who use APAPs did not know that they are seriously affecting the functionality of their APAP machine by using the SoClean machine the normal way.

What I was thinking is that: how the APAP machine can get the correct sound feed back from your mask if there is tube (The SoClean tube) passing through some part of the APAP tube!!! I dont see any way that an APAP machine can function correctly using the SoClean sanitizing machine.

I called the SoClean 2 manufacturer and they agree with me. They said that for APAPs and BiPAPs, they have a different solution. For a Resmed S9, they have a new humidifier door that allow the Ozone tube to go through it directly to the water reservoir (without going though the tube port on the back). That door is not sold online and you need to call them to order it. It costs $28 but you don't need the heated tube adapter if you get it. (Heated tube adapter is not funtionally correct with APAPs)

Did anybody use this humidifier door?

derhalli wrote:I have read multiple posts about the SoClean sanitizing machine. I did not see any post or review about using it with an APAP machine. Even those users who use APAPs did not know that they are seriously affecting the functionality of their APAP machine by using the SoClean machine the normal way.

What I was thinking is that: how the APAP machine can get the correct sound feed back from your mask if there is tube (The SoClean tube) passing through some part of the APAP tube!!! I dont see any way that an APAP machine can function correctly using the SoClean sanitizing machine.

I called the SoClean 2 manufacturer and they agree with me. They said that for APAPs and BiPAPs, they have a different solution. For a Resmed S9, they have a new humidifier door that allow the Ozone tube to go through it directly to the water reservoir (without going though the tube port on the back). That door is not sold online and you need to call them to order it. It costs $28 but you don't need the heated tube adapter if you get it. (Heated tube adapter is not funtionally correct with APAPs)

Did anybody use this humidifier door?

I've been using mine for a few months. AHI was on the rise after I installed it. ARRGGGG!!!!

Thanks for the info!!!!

derhalli wrote:I have read multiple posts about the SoClean sanitizing machine. I did not see any post or review about using it with an APAP machine. Even those users who use APAPs did not know that they are seriously affecting the functionality of their APAP machine by using the SoClean machine the normal way.

What I was thinking is that: how the APAP machine can get the correct sound feed back from your mask if there is tube (The SoClean tube) passing through some part of the APAP tube!!! I dont see any way that an APAP machine can function correctly using the SoClean sanitizing machine.

I have no idea what you're trying to say, however, it makes no sense in any event.

there is *no* physical difference in a a resmed cpap and a resmed apap, or bi-level machine.

as to the advisability of pumping ozone through the plastics and other components, ... who can say how much faster that will degrade them.

palerider wrote: I have no idea what you're trying to say, however, it makes no sense in any event.

there is *no* physical difference in a a resmed cpap and a resmed apap, or bi-level machine.

as to the advisability of pumping ozone through the plastics and other components, ... who can say how much faster that will degrade them.

There is no physical difference but there is a functionality difference. CPAP machines just push the air and monitors the pressure at the source. It does not look for breathing feedback from the patient. If the pressure drops because of a leak, it simply increases the amount of air it pusses in order to keep the pressure constant.

In APAP, the machine actually try to detect breathing pattern and keep the pressure as low as possible without causing an apnea episode. In order to do that, it measures sound reflects from you mask to detect snoring or partial obstruction. The machine has an audio sensor to actually measure snoring decibels and partial breathing noises. If you have another tube (from SoClean) passing through the APAP tube and partially blocking it, the APAP will assume that your breathing is partially obstructed and then tries to adjust for that. You will end up with higher pressure and incorrectly elevated AHI and AI readings. This may give your sleep specialist wrong information about your sleeping and can actually cause other health problems due to the high pressure you are exposed to. APAP machines are not designed to have something blocking the tube. (In S9, if you use a normal CPAP tube vs the slimline, you have to change the setting to adjust for the changing diameter of the tube )

Even though they look physically the same, they functionally differ greatly.

About Ozone, I don't think that is an issue. The ozone does not go through the machine. It only goes through the humidifier all the way to the mask. All affected components (if any) are to be replaced every 3 months anyways.

Day_Dreamer wrote:

I've been using mine for a few months. AHI was on the rise after I installed it. ARRGGGG!!!!

This elevated AHI number may be incorrect. Try to disconnect the SoClean and see if it drops back. Did your sleep pattern get worse after using the SoClean?

Day_Dreamer wrote:
I've been using mine for a few months. AHI was on the rise after I installed it. ARRGGGG!!!!

This elevated AHI number may be incorrect. Try to disconnect the SoClean and see if it drops back. Did your sleep pattern get worse after using the SoClean?

palerider wrote:
I have no idea what you're trying to say, however, it makes no sense in any event.

there is *no* physical difference in a a resmed cpap and a resmed apap, or bi-level machine.

as to the advisability of pumping ozone through the plastics and other components, ... who can say how much faster that will degrade them.

There is no physical difference but there is a functionality difference. CPAP machines just push the air and monitors the pressure at the source. It does not look for breathing feedback from the patient. If the pressure drops because of a leak, it simply increases the amount of air it pusses in order to keep the pressure constant.

In APAP, the machine actually try to detect breathing pattern and keep the pressure as low as possible without causing an apnea episode. In order to do that, it measures sound reflects from you mask to detect snoring or partial obstruction. The machine has an audio sensor to actually measure snoring decibels and partial breathing noises. If you have another tube (from SoClean) passing through the APAP tube and partially blocking it, the APAP will assume that your breathing is partially obstructed and then tries to adjust for that. You will end up with higher pressure and incorrectly elevated AHI and AI readings. This may give your sleep specialist wrong information about your sleeping and can actually cause other health problems due to the high pressure you are exposed to. APAP machines are not designed to have something blocking the tube. (In S9, if you use a normal CPAP tube vs the slimline, you have to change the setting to adjust for the changing diameter of the tube )

Even though they look physically the same, they functionally differ greatly.

About Ozone, I don't think that is an issue. The ozone does not go through the machine. It only goes through the humidifier all the way to the mask. All affected components (if any) are to be replaced every 3 months anyways.

derhalli wrote:There is no physical difference but there is a functionality difference. CPAP machines just push the air and monitors the pressure at the source. It does not look for breathing feedback from the patient. If the pressure drops because of a leak, it simply increases the amount of air it pusses in order to keep the pressure constant.

In APAP, the machine actually try to detect breathing pattern and keep the pressure as low as possible without causing an apnea episode. In order to do that, it measures sound reflects from you mask to detect snoring or partial obstruction. The machine has an audio sensor to actually measure snoring decibels and partial breathing noises. If you have another tube (from SoClean) passing through the APAP tube and partially blocking it, the APAP will assume that your breathing is partially obstructed and then tries to adjust for that. You will end up with higher pressure and incorrectly elevated AHI and AI readings. This may give your sleep specialist wrong information about your sleeping and can actually cause other health problems due to the high pressure you are exposed to. APAP machines are not designed to have something blocking the tube. (In S9, if you use a normal CPAP tube vs the slimline, you have to change the setting to adjust for the changing diameter of the tube )

your multiple posts notwithstanding, you couldn't be more wrong about what you're posting.

have you disassembled s9 elite (cpap) and a S9 vpap auto (bi-level)?

*I have*

there is no physical difference in the different models internally, they use the same internal parts, the same pressure sensors (three) the same blower motor, the *same circuit board*. the autoset and the vpap adapt are also the same, even though the elite costs 600ish dollars and the adapt costs 3000, they're *the same*.

the autoset does not have a "microphone" in it, it has a very sensitive pressure sensor, which can detect the fluctuations caused by snoring... there's no sound involved, it's all pressure sensing. two pressure sensors across a venturi measure flow, a third measures the pressure.

furthermore, the s9 elite (cpap) measures and calculates snoring, flow limitations, hypopneas, obstructive apneas and central apneas, it detects the difference between OA and CA with the FOT pressure wave method. the only differece between that and the autoset (apap) is the apap will raise pressure automatically, if it's in autoset mode.

derhalli wrote:Even though they look physically the same, they functionally differ greatly.

in software

palerider wrote: your multiple posts notwithstanding, you couldn't be more wrong about what you're posting.

have you disassembled s9 elite (cpap) and a S9 vpap auto (bi-level)?

*I have*

there is no physical difference in the different models internally, they use the same internal parts, the same pressure sensors (three) the same blower motor, the *same circuit board*. the autoset and the vpap adapt are also the same, even though the elite costs 600ish dollars and the adapt costs 3000, they're *the same*.

the autoset does not have a "microphone" in it, it has a very sensitive pressure sensor, which can detect the fluctuations caused by snoring... there's no sound involved, it's all pressure sensing. two pressure sensors across a venturi measure flow, a third measures the pressure.

furthermore, the s9 elite (cpap) measures and calculates snoring, flow limitations, hypopneas, obstructive apneas and central apneas, it detects the difference between OA and CA with the FOT pressure wave method. the only differece between that and the autoset (apap) is the apap will raise pressure automatically, if it's in autoset mode.

derhalli wrote:Even though they look physically the same, they functionally differ greatly.

in software

First, I apologize for the multiple posts.... I did not notice that I was not logged in when I posted the first two replies. Sorry for that....

Secondly, I don't want to go through debates in here. But do you know what a microphone is? It is a pressure sensor. If the pressure sensor is fast enough to detect high frequencies and wide wave amplitudes, then it can be used a microphone. As I mentioned in my post, physically they both may be similar but functionally, they work differently.

The change may be "mainly" in software, but the hardware is qualified differently to work with different software.
I work in high-tech and we manufacture high-end silicon chips. If you produce two copies of same chip on the same wafer, each may end up as a different product based on the quality of the chip on the same silicon wafer. They both look the same and printed from the same mask, manufactured together, but each may end up running on different product and different specification because that's how production is.

What I mean is, both looking the same does not mean they work the same with same capabilities. Otherwise, why do you think SoClean has that specific cover for APAP? I don't think they just manufacture it to make me happy.

derhalli wrote: Secondly, I don't want to go through debates in here. But do you know what a microphone is? It is a pressure sensor. If the pressure sensor is fast enough to detect high frequencies and wide wave amplitudes, then it can be used a microphone. As I mentioned in my post, physically they both may be similar but functionally, they work differently.

well, if by "similar" you mean "the same part number" ... then sure, I guess you can call the pressure sensor in a cpap (which is doing the same work as in the apap) a pressure sensor, and call the same exact component a "microphone" in the other, but... people will laugh at you for doing so.

derhalli wrote: The change may be "mainly" in software, but the hardware is qualified differently to work with different software.
...
What I mean is, both looking the same does not mean they work the same with same capabilities. Otherwise, why do you think SoClean has that specific cover for APAP? I don't think they just manufacture it to make me happy.

I have no clue why soclean does what they do in their quest to separate you from your money. but, I repeat, have you taken a cpap and an apap apart? have you examined the internal hardware carefully? I have.

till you have too, you're just guessing, and guessing wrong.

OK man, as I said, I am not going through debates with somebody who calls himself a "professional computer geek" while in reality knows nothing about what he is talking about. If you are angry of something in your life then just go and vent somewhere else or take some Valium. I created this post to warn people of something and apparently that triggered something in you.

I don't want to get into personal attacks and humiliations but please leave this post alone. Discussion with you is clearly useless and nobody will benefit from such attacks by you. If you have never designed a product nor went through a full high-tech manufacturing cycle, then please don't comment anymore.

derhalli wrote:OK man, as I said, I am not going through debates with somebody who calls himself a "professional computer geek" while in reality knows nothing about what he is talking about. If you are angry of something in your life then just go and vent somewhere else or take some Valium. I created this post to warn people of something and apparently that triggered something in you.

you're making assumptions, and dodging the points that I raise, without any knowledge of the internal workings of a xpap machine. "microphone" "sounds" "listening" uh..... huh.

I get the feeling you're probably a shill from the company, trying to drum up business.

OK man, as I said, I am not going through debates with somebody who calls himself a "professional computer geek" while in reality knows nothing about what he is talking about. If you are angry of something in your life then just go and vent somewhere else or take some Valium. I created this post to warn people of something and apparently that triggered something in you.

I don't want to get into personal attacks and humiliations but please leave this post alone. Discussion with you is clearly useless and nobody will benefit from such attacks by you. If you have never designed a product nor went through a full high-tech manufacturing cycle, then please don't comment anymore

Just block him.
Its a much more enjoyable experience to only have to see a note that suggests he has posted after you and nothing else.
A professional computer geek...LOL.../sighs......in his dreams.

Anyhow, best to block........

Perhaps not fully to your question but close enough i felt........I read this review on Amazon and found it interesting, at least one very important part of the review.

Let's get the possibly negative aspect behind us first.

After having setup the SoClean 2 to sanitize my CPAP system daily, using it for several days, and reading ALL the documentation, I could rate the SoClean 2 five stars but for one little gotcha. Reading the Better Rest Solutions' product presentation on Amazon and visiting their website, one could easily believe (is led to believe) that the SoClean 2 machine, by itself, would maintain a CPAP system 99.9% free of bacteria, viruses, and mold - without chemicals or water.

Here's the gotcha. The last question and answer in the FAQ, on the last page of the manual, is this:

"10. Will I ever need to wash my CPAP equipment again? The SoClean is intended to supplement, not replace, the manufacturer's recommendations for cleaning their equipment."

Is that what you expected? Maybe, sanitizing your CPAP with the SoClean 2, by itself, does, in fact, keep it very clean and that answer in the FAQ's is just legal weasel words. How would you know? How much does the SoClean 2 appeal to you on those terms?

ShelaghDerangedBrain wrote: A professional computer geek...LOL.../sighs......in his dreams.
.

I'd tell you what I do for my day job, but you wouldn't understand it *lol*