Phillips / Philips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread

[amenite]

...
I did call the 1-877 line and was told that units over 5 years old will be replaced while those under 5 years will be repaired.

This is more info than I've heard so far. I didn't even attempt to call the number thinking it would be inundated and not necessarily accurate or complete info yet. Plus I have my alternate solution going too. Replacement would be nice, I have one unit definitely over 5 years old, possibly two.

[Woody]

Well so if Lane heard right my 3 year old Dreamstation will just be repaired but my older
System 1 bipap will be replaced. Well I can live with that. It's funny I got a Dreamstation
over 4 years ago and after about a year I ran the built in self test which it failed. They replaced
it but after about a year it too failed the self test so was replaced too. So Wednesday I
register my Dreamstation and all goes well. So Thursday I get a piece of bulk mail from
" my cpap supply company " they didn't name my DME and didn't call me by name just "dear
customer" your cpap has exceeded it's 5 year life time call this # for replacement!

Shure sounds like some scam but I must say there timing was pretty good.

[HairyReasoner]

I did call the 1-877 line and was told that units over 5 years old will be replaced while those under 5 years will be repaired.

I wonder with what they will replace them. It's not like they have a bunch of new System Ones sitting around. I wonder if that means if you're machine is 5 years old or older, don't expect your unit back. It'll be like the story of the slave master on the old galley ship who tells his rowers, "Ok boys, you've been doing a good job rowing. Captain says as a reward you'll all be allowed a change of underwear. Ok, Frank, you change with George. Bob, you trade with John . . ."

[kbh209]

Even my friend's 250 P, which I borrowed is on the recall list. I had no idea that O'Toole was still my Murphy's law caseworker. This is some serious Bolshevik and Shiitake mushrooms.

[reader2580]

I highly doubt Philips is going to refurbish your exact unit. They likely aren't going to want to have patients going an extra month without therapy while their machine is refurbished. I would find it hard to believe they won't fully refurbish the units and replace any parts that need replacing.

If it is true they will replace units over five years old that seems to be the wrong strategy. The patients who have a machine under five years old should get new machines and then use the newer machines as replacements for the older units. Why should someone with a practically new machine be given a machine that may be several years older and those who chose not to replace their machines basically win the lottery with a new machine? I have two machines under recall with one under five years and one over five years so I will see it from both sides.

[ILoveFlowers]

PR has made it abundantly clear that ozone cleaning is a significant variable in this equation. Enough so that they’re asking the question on the registration page. I’ve seen posts here and other places where people are untruthfully responding “no” to the ozone question out of fear of it being an excuse to void their claim. Which, may seem a reasonable concern. Others have commented that perhaps they’re only asking so they can prioritize service to the ones most likely to be degraded. Also seems reasonable.

It makes you wonder if SoClean is going to be facing a lawsuit if it turns out their treatment actually damages the machines.

[chunkyfrog]

I hope Respironics does the repairs, regardless--then THEY sue SoClean.
I have seen how class action suits work.
The lawyers take 90% or more off the top--customer gets a coupon for a coffee.
Not quite what you need if your cpap need$ repair.

[kbh209]

@Chunky @Pugsy or anyone who's regularly followed my posts in the past.

This is my concern: I have developmental disabilities thanks to a rare chromosome abnormality, and obstructive sleep apnea came with the complete package at no cost to me. My concern is this: Phillips telling people not to use their CPAP & BiPap machines until they can be replaced. I'm at the thought process that I don't want to NOT wake up one day, because I stopped using my CPAP therapy and have to wait for my machine to be repaired or replaced. If I'm not seeing any "foam particles" in the humidifier, tubing or my mask, I should in theory still be using my machine , so I don't fall asleep permanently, right?

The clinic manager, who happens to be the wife of my sleep specialist has been active on their clinic's Facebook page. She mentioned she'll have the doctor call me on Wednesday when he gets in the office. The clinic is aware of the issue and they're reporting patients' SNs to Phillips.

[Pugsy]

If I'm not seeing any "foam particles" in the humidifier, tubing or my mask, I should in theory still be using my machine , so I don't fall asleep permanently, right?

I am sorry but you are asking me a question that I simply can't answer because there is so much I don't know about all this. What I know is actually very little.
I don't know if whatever particles that might be making it to the water chamber and on are even of a size that can be seen.
I don't know how much of an issue simple off gassing might be.
Just because particulates can't be seen doesn't mean they aren't present. That sort of thing.

I also know that there is a risk associated with not using cpap as well....so each person has to decide for themselves which risk scares them the worse.

I can't make that decision for someone nor will I.

I can tell a person what I would do if the only machine I had was an affected machine....and I did that a couple of times already in this thread. I might add an inline bacterial filter though. While I know it won't necessarily help much with gaseous exchange...it will catch the larger particulates. In fact Phillips recommends that patients who are on life saving ventilators that are affected to do just that.
Whatever, if ever, any protection that filter might offer....is better than no protection.
I would still proceed with obtaining a non affected machine at my earliest opportunity.
Stopping cpap for me would mean my O2 levels tanking to around 70%....that's a known risk and a pretty bad risk at that.
It scares me worse than the maybe risk of the foam maybe breaking down.

[Morgoth]

If I'm not seeing any "foam particles" in the humidifier, tubing or my mask, I should in theory still be using my machine , so I don't fall asleep permanently, right?

I am sorry but you are asking me a question that I simply can't answer because there is so much I don't know about all this. What I know is actually very little.
I don't know if whatever particles that might be making it to the water chamber and on are even of a size that can be seen.
I don't know how much of an issue simple off gassing might be.
Just because particulates can't be seen doesn't mean they aren't present. That sort of thing.

I also know that there is a risk associated with not using cpap as well....so each person has to decide for themselves which risk scares them the worse.

I can't make that decision for someone nor will I.

I can tell a person what I would do if the only machine I had was an affected machine....and I did that a couple of times already in this thread. I might add an inline bacterial filter though. While I know it won't necessarily help much with gaseous exchange...it will catch the larger particulates. In fact Phillips recommends that patients who are on life saving ventilators that are affected to do just that.
Whatever, if ever, any protection that filter might offer....is better than no protection.
I would still proceed with obtaining a non affected machine at my earliest opportunity.
Stopping cpap for me would mean my O2 levels tanking to around 70%....that's a known risk and a pretty bad risk at that.
It scares me worse than the maybe risk of the foam maybe breaking down.

Pugsy,

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I see you are mentioning your O2 levels tanking around 70$. My O2 levels are around 70% as well.

On the other thread I talked to you, I said I was sold Dreamstation machine 15 days ago, and as I said I'm thinking of returning it back.

I'm curios, would you turn it back ? Judging by your posts, I'm inclined to think, that if you were in my place, you would turn it back.

My other option, until I get Resmed or Devilbiss, would be renting a machine (Resmed AirSense 10 AutoSet, or BMC) for ~100$ a month until I buy a machine.

I'm just curious ? Would you take the DS back ?

Thanks

[kbh209]

Understood Pugsy, thank you for the honest reply.

Based off of Phillips' recommendation I'll ask my sleep specialist on Wednesday when he gets in, if he can prescribe an inline bacterial filter for my machine.

[jbintn]

My machines are only 3 months old so I think it'll be a while before the foam will degrade. So I'll keep using it.

Mine is less than a year, and I intend to keep using it as well. Not to mention I've not used ozone to clean it, and it's not in a hot/humid area. Tried sleeping without it for two nights, and man, what a difference it makes.

[Pugsy]

I'm curios, would you turn it back ? Judging by your posts, I'm inclined to think, that if you were in my place, you would turn it back.

I would return it. I have to accept enough negative risks in my life without this added one.
My oxygen levels went to 73% and I used to wake up with god awful killer morning headaches because of it. I don't want to go back to that because of a maybe risk...but I would still work on getting a different machine.
The fact that Phillips is even doing this recall even though they say they haven't had anything bad reports...scares the hell out of me.
Where there's smoke there is usually a fire of some sort and I just don't want to be caught up in it.

I don't know your financial situation but if at all possible....rent the ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet.
Forget the BMC totally...cheap Chinese knockoff and not compatible with OSCAR and I don't know if it shows data or how reliable it is...and based of your reports so far....you need reliable and easy to obtain data.
The Devilbiss you mentioned....data requires a special module which is additional expense and OSCAR is only available with one model anyway. By the time you buy the extra module to get the detailed data (which still isn't on par with ResMed details) you could pretty much buy a ResMed.

If you can rent a machine you can at least try it and see how you like it. I think the ResMed would suit you better anyway.
Now I do realize that sometimes the wallet just can't handle it but check out secondwindcpap.com....the do international sales and the cost might be less than your local suppliers where you are.
Bear in mind I know nothing about your customs or import duties or whatever. I once sent a box of masks to Romania...gift to someone with ALS and needing cpap just to help him breathe....took 6 weeks for it to be delivered to him after it made it to Romanian customs. I guess it took them that long to figure out a box of used masks wasn't worth stealing.

I am the queen of cheap myself ....except when it comes to my health and on that I don't cut corners.

The Devilbiss machine...decent machine but it doesn't distinguish flow rate at all or show breaths and from what I have seen on your reports so far...we might need to do an extra step.
The ResMed is a superior machine IMHO especially so from what I see on your Respironics reports and the fact you are already having trouble exhaling at needed higher pressures. You might not need as much pressure with a ResMed machine...can't promise it but there's a maybe there.

[Morgoth]

I'm curios, would you turn it back ? Judging by your posts, I'm inclined to think, that if you were in my place, you would turn it back.

I would return it. I have to accept enough negative risks in my life without this added one.
My oxygen levels went to 73% and I used to wake up with god awful killer morning headaches because of it. I don't want to go back to that because of a maybe risk...but I would still work on getting a different machine.
The fact that Phillips is even doing this recall even though they say they haven't had anything bad reports...scares the hell out of me.
Where there's smoke there is usually a fire of some sort and I just don't want to be caught up in it.

I don't know your financial situation but if at all possible....rent the ResMed AirSense 10 AutoSet.
Forget the BMC totally...cheap Chinese knockoff and not compatible with OSCAR and I don't know if it shows data or how reliable it is...and based of your reports so far....you need reliable and easy to obtain data.
The Devilbiss you mentioned....data requires a special module which is additional expense and OSCAR is only available with one model anyway. By the time you buy the extra module to get the detailed data (which still isn't on par with ResMed details) you could pretty much buy a ResMed.

If you can rent a machine you can at least try it and see how you like it. I think the ResMed would suit you better anyway.
Now I do realize that sometimes the wallet just can't handle it but check out secondwindcpap.com....the do international sales and the cost might be less than your local suppliers where you are.
Bear in mind I know nothing about your customs or import duties or whatever. I once sent a box of masks to Romania...gift to someone with ALS and needing cpap just to help him breathe....took 6 weeks for it to be delivered to him after it made it to Romanian customs. I guess it took them that long to figure out a box of used masks wasn't worth stealing.

I am the queen of cheap myself ....except when it comes to my health and on that I don't cut corners.

The Devilbiss machine...decent machine but it doesn't distinguish flow rate at all or show breaths and from what I have seen on your reports so far...we might need to do an extra step.
The ResMed is a superior machine IMHO especially so from what I see on your Respironics reports and the fact you are already having trouble exhaling at needed higher pressures. You might not need as much pressure with a ResMed machine...can't promise it but there's a maybe there.

Pugsy,

First of all, thank you so much for this incredible help and time you invest to help me and others out ! I really appreciate it.

Well, we are in the same boat, my O2 levels drops to 71%, at least they did when I was doing my sleep study, and I wasn't sleeping hard at all, God knows what happens when I start snoring and choking like barking a dog while sleeping tight ... That was my normal life for last 15-20 years...

Anyway, I paid this Dreamstation ~$1200, I know, it's a robbery, but they are the official and the only Phillips distributer here, and there is another company that selling Resmeds for $1700, now that's a pillage lol, but I could import from cpapeurope or cpapstore(dot)eu for the same price I paid DS (~1200$) with shipping and customs... So I guess I'll go that route, return DS and get Resmed, and meanwhile rent Resmed...

[RosemaryC]

I spoke with my Dr's office today. They told me they advise stopping using the DreamStation. They are sending a prescription to the DME for a DreamStation 2.

There's a fellow on YouTube (which is how I found out about the recall by the way) that says the Dream station 2 is a piece of scrap, just junk. I think I'll wait for the repair or replacement. My dream station is only 9 months old and I like it pretty well.