Train accident

[lc96]

It's interesting to me that while the news is reporting that the train engineer in New York had a "micro-sleep" or zone-out, not one mention (that I've seen) has mentioned possible sleep apnea issues.

[JDS74]

Do a search using the phrase "NY Train sleep apnea" and you'll run into lots of discussion.
So far I have not heard any allegationn that thIs particular engineer suffered from it but the investigation continues.

[BlackSpinner]

I thought all trains were on "deadman's" switches, that if there wasn't someone keeping on the pressure then it would slow down and stop.

There have been many investigations here in Canada on the safety of trains since those 57 people died at Lac Magantic when run away fuel cars exploded in a small town. They found lots of violations and short cuts and questionable reporting standards.

[mellabella]

I thought all trains were on "deadman's" switches, that if there wasn't someone keeping on the pressure then it would slow down and stop.

Metro North trains were already required by law to have a similar technology in place before this happened....by 2015. They are NOT ahead of schedule on this deadline due to budgetary issues (of course). Multiple studies have shown sleep deprivation is worse than DUI for road safety. The whole thing is a horror.

[lc96]

Sorry, didn't search using quite the right words.

[zoocrewphoto]

I saw a story on the news about it today, and they were saying that the engineer normally works a late shift, and they switched to him to an early morning shift, which is when he normally sleeps. Sleep apnea could also be an issue of course, but it sounded like it could be plain old being sleepy due to not enough sleep.

You would think that businesses (all kinds) would be catching on that sleep schedule is important, and they could have better efficiency if they scheduled people at the right time of day. For example, instead of rotating all employees through various work schedules, put morning people in the morning and night people at night. Why force a night person to work in the morning while a morning person is stuck working late?

[Todzo]

Train engineer William Rockefeller appears to have:

A receded chin
A very large neck
A BMI of perhaps 36
A tendency to fall asleep during boring tasks.

So I will be surprised if he does not have OSA.

I think that trains should be controlled by computers with human supervision.
I think that humans should be watched by vigilance monitoring equipment when handling tasks such as running a train, bus, or airliner.

[Todzo]

If train engineer William Rockefeller does have OSA and is under xPAP treatment for OSA can the care provider be held liable if his flow data was not monitored?

[nanwilson]

Train engineer William Rockefeller appears to have:

A receded chin
A very large neck
A BMI of perhaps 36
A tendency to fall asleep during boring tasks.

So I will be surprised if he does not have OSA.

I think that trains should be controlled by computers with human supervision.
I think that humans should be watched by vigilance monitoring equipment when handling tasks such as running a train, bus, or airliner.

Soooo...when did you become a doctor able to diagnose sleep apnea???????????????? I can show you 6 young men in my neighbourhood that have the very same description and do not have sleep apnea. (They have been tested .)

[Todzo]

Train engineer William Rockefeller appears to have:

A receded chin
A very large neck
A BMI of perhaps 36
A tendency to fall asleep during boring tasks.

So I will be surprised if he does not have OSA.

I think that trains should be controlled by computers with human supervision.
I think that humans should be watched by vigilance monitoring equipment when handling tasks such as running a train, bus, or airliner.

Soooo...when did you become a doctor able to diagnose sleep apnea???????????????? I can show you 6 young men in my neighbourhood that have the very same description and do not have sleep apnea. (They have been tested .)

I wanted to help others with OSA and got a pulse oximeter to do so I got a pulse oximeter and got six men to wear it all chosen carefully by me as very likely OSA. All six were found to have very significant desaturations.

Your statement: "I can show you 6 young men in my neighbourhood that have the very same description and do not have sleep apnea. (They have been tested .)" seems very very unlikely.

[nanwilson]

You really have a high opinion of yourself don't you.... DOCTOR Todzo or should I say Doctor "a++*^#@"

[Todzo]

Mack D. Jones MD in his book "Deadly Sleep: Is Your Sleep Killing You?" and Steven Y. Park M.D. in his book "Sleep, Interrupted: A physician reveals the #1 reason why so many of us are sick and tired" both doctors discuss the observable physical characteristics of OSA and how they find themselves looking at people and noticing those.

As well the STOP BANG Questionnaire looks at neck circumference and BMI and many other OSA screening tools use the Epworth Sleepiness Scale which looks carefully at vigilence while doing boring tasks.

There is absolutely no excuse for the doctors to be missing OSA apparently 80% of the time even today!!!

[49er]

I saw a story on the news about it today, and they were saying that the engineer normally works a late shift, and they switched to him to an early morning shift, which is when he normally sleeps. Sleep apnea could also be an issue of course, but it sounded like it could be plain old being sleepy due to not enough sleep.

You would think that businesses (all kinds) would be catching on that sleep schedule is important, and they could have better efficiency if they scheduled people at the right time of day. For example, instead of rotating all employees through various work schedules, put morning people in the morning and night people at night. Why force a night person to work in the morning while a morning person is stuck working late?

I wonder if he was filling in for someone on the day shift or did you sense from the article, he had definitely been shifted? Totally agree with you that it is absurd to force people to work unsuitable shifts but then again, maybe they had no choice due to being short staffed?

No matter what, it is a big time tragedy.

49er

PS - When I worked at a hospital several years ago, the nurses who preferred to work nights were never shifted since it was so hard to find people who wanted to work that shift.

[chunkyfrog]

Many companies offer shift differential, or extra pay for late hour work, and NO ROTATION.
Rotating shifts are dangerous--the schedulers need to be held accountable.

[ChicagoGranny]

Yes, that train driver will eventually be found to have sleep apnea if he hasn't already been diagnosed.

I agree. The odds are very high that the driver has sleep apnea.