What are good O2 Concentrators

General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
CpapWife
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:34 pm
Location: Arizona

What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by CpapWife » Fri May 30, 2014 3:21 am

Hi, I know this group focuses on CPAP (bipap/apap) machines, but thought you would be a good group to ask. At least to point me to a place that has some good research.

After much struggle with this and pushing it from different angles and even saying hey, let us just try it on our $ for a month to see if it makes a difference, we finally got a DME o2 test to show hubby was low in O2 saturation and insurance will cover a concentrator. (1st test said no problems, sleep studies have said on problem, but our o2 sensor showed that he hovered between 88 & 90 for a good chunk of the average night with a few dips below 88).

So we need to figure out good brands/models (I don't to take this info from any DME).
He is on the standard 2 L /min - Night only when he is wearing his cpap.
But he travels for work a few times a year, typically for 2 weeks at a time, flying back and forth. So we need for those trips that is easy enough to travel with (no o2 on plane, just when he lands). The Dr did write another prescription for a portable one for trips.

Is it better to buy a regular one and take that in the car for car trips and rent one for plane trip?
A larger "portable" one might work for all situations (e.g. 10-20 lbs and 1' square? I am making up the size but you get the idea).
He often flys with short notice (told Fri he is leaving Mon) and it may be difficult to get a travel size rental one last minute and a near impossible to get it at the destination as he hits the ground running and does 12 hour days typically).
We did put a chunk of money aside in flex hoping this would come thru (planning to do other things if it didn't), and
insurance covers decently but I would rather not overspend for something he doesn't need.

I should say the one the DME gave us has about 1900+ hours on it, looks a little scraped up. But the worst part it kicks out a LOT of heat. The first night it kicked up the room heat about 5 degrees from even the hallway. I called and the DME said to make sure it is was 12" from the wall. And said they are all that way. That helped, but it still makes the room noticeably warmer. Since we live in Phoenix AZ and have the AC on most of the year, I would sure like this to create as least heat as possible (or it might have to live outside and have the tubing come in thru the wall - lol).

Oh, and good news, we put the DME o2 sensor on one hand & our sensor on the other hand and the readings were very very close (general look). We have the CMS50FW model.

Thanks for your help.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Wisp Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear - Fit Pack
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Invocare O2 concentrator - 3 LPM. Wife to new cpap user Sept 2008

User avatar
jencat824
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:06 pm
Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by jencat824 » Fri May 30, 2014 4:12 am

My BIL just bought an Inogen 3, it goes up to 6 liters (he is currently on 4 liters). He has a big O2 concentrator for use at home, the Inogen 3 is for trips away from home (grocery, doctor, drug store, etc.). They were easy to deal with during the purchase process, but I don't know anything else yet. It comes with a 3 yr warranty that includes dropping it breackage, etc. The unit comes with a carry bag & rolling cart & ac/dc adaptor for charging. We hope this will be a better alternative to the small portable O2 containers that don't last very long away from home. The Inogen says the battery lasts up to 5 hours, but they told us with his current usage the battery will last around 3 1/2 hours. He is getting 2 batteries with his package. You might want to go to their website for further info, its Inogen.com.

He currently has Apria for his O2 needs and will keep the large O2 concentrator for his at-home needs. We were looking for a good portable O2 alternative, since the small portable canisters were heavy & the amount of O2 was very inconsistent & we were tired of fighting with Apria over this issue. He wanted this Inogen unit, has been talking about it for some time & since his disability has recently been approved, he decided it was exactly what he wanted. Now if I can just get him to turn his O2 off when he smokes, life will be good......

I don't know if this is the info you are looking for, its just the info that has been my experience so far.

Jen

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure Auto 12-20cm CPAP compliant since 2000
Other masks I've tried: *=liked, #= no way
Piliaro, SleepWeaver Elan*, Swift FX w&w/o Bella Loops#, OpitLife#,Simplicity*, Mirage Vista*, Go Life for Her#, IQ (original hg only)*, Quattro FX (barely)###, Wisp*, Nuance#, Swift LT for her**

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Julie » Fri May 30, 2014 4:15 am

Hi - to be clear, have you only talked to the DME about his desats, or to his doctor, or a pulmonologist specializing in sleep problems? While hovering around 88-90 or so is not ideal, it's also not a matter of frequent, long spikes that go a lot lower and there may be different answers to the problem than a concentrator which seems like overkill to me. Maybe his Cpap pressures need to be tweaked first as a trial, rather than overreacting to what really seems like a borderline issue.

Stevoreno_55
Posts: 369
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 10:28 pm
Location: MS Gulf Coast

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Stevoreno_55 » Fri May 30, 2014 5:04 am

Julie wrote:Hi - to be clear, have you only talked to the DME about his desats, or to his doctor, or a pulmonologist specializing in sleep problems? While hovering around 88-90 or so is not ideal, it's also not a matter of frequent, long spikes that go a lot lower and there may be different answers to the problem than a concentrator which seems like overkill to me. Maybe his Cpap pressures need to be tweaked first as a trial, rather than overreacting to what really seems like a borderline issue.
How large are O2 concentrators for in home use? Larger than a college dorm refrigerator and are they noisy? Do most of the in home units sound like a generator when running?


Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
05/30/14

_________________
Mask
Additional Comments: Newly diagnosed pressures as of June 05, 2014 are 22cmIPAP and 18cmEPAP; first diagnosed with OSA in 1999.

CpapWife
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:34 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by CpapWife » Fri May 30, 2014 5:22 am

Julie wrote:Hi - to be clear, have you only talked to the DME about his desats, or to his doctor, or a pulmonologist specializing in sleep problems? While hovering around 88-90 or so is not ideal, it's also not a matter of frequent, long spikes that go a lot lower and there may be different answers to the problem than a concentrator which seems like overkill to me. Maybe his Cpap pressures need to be tweaked first as a trial, rather than overreacting to what really seems like a borderline issue.
We are working with a good sleep Dr. He said the magic number for insurance is 4 minutes below 88. But he said sometimes o2 can make a big difference even when you don't qualify for insurance. Also the endocrinologist said his hemocrats are at the high end and was concerned when they rose one lab result and the first thing he asked was about sleep apnea. He said not enough o2 saturation could cause this result. Interestingly I talked to the national diving (scuba diving) organization - experts in lung functionality and how pressurized air affects different conditions- about a different but related issue. They were shocked that hubby has about 95% saturation sitting up, they felt it should be above 97. And I mean they were really shocked. They thought 95% sleeping was the goal (I have heard that before), but that might be unrealistic.

Hubby has severe sleep apnea 91xmin in first sleep study but with the cpap things are pretty good and he has more hypoapnea than oa, but can have both. Better nights he has only a little hypo and no OA, a bad night he has some OA and clusters of hypo. With cpap, his ahi is low most days (bad day 2-4 times a month), low being 1.2 or lower. With the o2, he is actually significantly lower in ahis, so far seeming to be less than .5 as a norm.

With the o2 concentrator, he hovers around 90-92 as his low (up from 88-90), everything seems pulled up some for o2 saturation and his AIs are lower, which we feel is good news. No blood test yet to see if lab tests are affected.

It might make a difference on the conditions causing the hypoapnea/apnea, hubby was a premie baby, born 2 months early, back when they were not real skilled in dealing with that issue. And has had sleep apnea (not formally diagnosed) his entire adult life, not affected by being very fit, highly athletic, young, or older and overweight. So probably born with it.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Wisp Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear - Fit Pack
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Invocare O2 concentrator - 3 LPM. Wife to new cpap user Sept 2008

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Julie » Fri May 30, 2014 5:32 am

I wouldn't be too concerned about what the diving people say - it might apply to very fit young people in training, and 97 might be an ideal number, but in real life, while asleep (diving people are not necessarily knowledgable about sleeping #'s) anything above 90 is considered acceptable, especially in a Cpap world.

Might seem a silly question, but does your husband sleep on his back? Has he been 'tested' even at home over a few nights while off his back and if so, what do his #'s look like then?

CpapWife
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:34 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by CpapWife » Fri May 30, 2014 12:06 pm

Julie wrote:I wouldn't be too concerned about what the diving people say - it might apply to very fit young people in training, and 97 might be an ideal number, but in real life, while asleep (diving people are not necessarily knowledgable about sleeping #'s) anything above 90 is considered acceptable, especially in a Cpap world.

Might seem a silly question, but does your husband sleep on his back? Has he been 'tested' even at home over a few nights while off his back and if so, what do his #'s look like then?
Yes, his numbers change when he is in rem sleep & probably positional. With have done a lot of checking things out but hubby said no about putting a camera (which we would have to buy) to record his night and match it with the sp02 & cpap info to confirm if positional affects it. But since we know o2 makes a difference for him, I don't see a point to doing any more investigating. We have the insurance and flex money to cover a machine and I can't see us restricting his positions (it just causes other problems, been there done that with a shoulder issue myself, better not to restrict sleeping positions as it affects so many other things).

What I am looking for is machine advise, I feel we have the rest down.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Wisp Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear - Fit Pack
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Invocare O2 concentrator - 3 LPM. Wife to new cpap user Sept 2008

User avatar
Julie
Posts: 19898
Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2006 12:58 pm

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Julie » Fri May 30, 2014 1:08 pm

You don't need a camera to confirm anything... just keep off his back 1-2 nights (foam wedges are good in behind) and look at the readouts.

CpapWife
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:34 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by CpapWife » Fri May 30, 2014 1:44 pm

We don't even know it is positional, we do know it is REM. Like everyone else he has good and bad night.
We know his o2 sats are not great at any time, so like I said, we have already decided to do the machine. I'd like to let any discussion on positions drop - like I said, there is consequences to forcing positions. If you want to talk more, lets do it in a PM and not here, or start another thread.

I am looking for information about machines and would like thread to focus on that.

So again, anyone have information about good o2 concentrator machines, I would be very interested in your information. See my first post for what we are looking for.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Wisp Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear - Fit Pack
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Invocare O2 concentrator - 3 LPM. Wife to new cpap user Sept 2008

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 16087
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Goofproof » Fri May 30, 2014 2:45 pm

Remember, only NON-PULSE O2 is to be used with XPAP! It sounds like the need to use O2 might be borderline, not that O2 isn't good for you, but there is a cost benefit most have to consider. Portable units have much shorter lives, and higher costs. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

User avatar
jencat824
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:06 pm
Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by jencat824 » Fri May 30, 2014 8:09 pm

The portable unit I mentioned, the Inogen, has 2 plans to purchase $2,495 was the 3 yr warranty & my BIL bought that one. He is actively dying so won't likely need more than a 3 yr warranty. They offer a lifetime warranty, which encompasses 'as long as you own the machine' sells for $3,495. If you want this route, the lifetime warranty might be worth it.

If you want to browse some large at-home units, I might suggest directmedical.com. They sell at home units but I can't say anything about their pricing.

In general, Bryan's unit is not loud, actually makes no discernible noise.

Hope this helps,
Jen

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure Auto 12-20cm CPAP compliant since 2000
Other masks I've tried: *=liked, #= no way
Piliaro, SleepWeaver Elan*, Swift FX w&w/o Bella Loops#, OpitLife#,Simplicity*, Mirage Vista*, Go Life for Her#, IQ (original hg only)*, Quattro FX (barely)###, Wisp*, Nuance#, Swift LT for her**

CpapWife
Posts: 74
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:34 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by CpapWife » Fri May 30, 2014 8:57 pm

Thanks Goofproof. Made me jump up to check the one we have right now - it makes that thumping noise, but it is a continuous and hubby confirmed that is what he feels.
In my initial checking, stationary is about 1/3 or 1/4 the costs, but it can't go on trips. And getting a rental for a portable with short notice (e.g. told Friday and needed that day), is difficult. That is why we are looking at a more portable ones.
Respironics has a middle of the road one - only 20 lbs (vs 30-40) but again more pricy than the stay at home models, but something like this might fit the bill for traveling.


Jen, that helps to know that the price is dependent on the warranty. Sorry to hear about your husband, I hope you both enjoy the time he has left.


Stevoreno_55 - they are not like a generator, at least not the better models. The one we are trying out does about 40db, which means it does a thump thump sound all night but a quite thumping, like someone walking around that hits their heels a little hard when they walk. I saw one that make a white noise sound to help cover the machine noise and make sleep better. But they do warm up the room noticeably, we have it in the next room over and make sure the back is open to the room, not against the wall, and it till raises the air around it 2-3 degrees.

_________________
Machine: DreamStation Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: Wisp Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear - Fit Pack
Humidifier: DreamStation Heated Humidifier
Additional Comments: Invocare O2 concentrator - 3 LPM. Wife to new cpap user Sept 2008

9forus
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:35 pm

What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by 9forus » Fri May 30, 2014 9:25 pm

Is a concentrator the only option for night? My infant son had a lung removed and we live at a high altitude of 6500 feet. He used the compressed oxygen. (We still have it here at home for any illnesses.) Didn't require electricity and was silent. It doesn't raise the room temp either. What part of the country are you in? Our DME is local/statewide and fabulous!

User avatar
jencat824
Posts: 1442
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:06 pm
Location: Jeffersonville, Indiana

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by jencat824 » Fri May 30, 2014 9:40 pm

CpapWife wrote:

Jen, that helps to know that the price is dependent on the warranty. Sorry to hear about your husband, I hope you both enjoy the time he has left.
Sorry I wasn't clear, its my Hubby's brother that is dying. He is more like my child than a brother-in-law. I'm the family 'caregiver' & Bryan has been my 'problem-child' for years. We are all making the most of the time we have left with him.

Regarding the O2, another thought came to me - Inogen has another unit, weight 4.8lbs. It also comes with the carry bag, but I'm not sure about the cart. It might be ideal for travel due to its size. However, the battery runs for approx. 5 hrs on EITHER unit, so this might be a problem. You would need to ask how long it runs on 'pulse', timing might be OK, but that fact just popped into my head.

Keep searching the internet, I'm sure the answer is out there. I'll go back thru my notes & post any other useful info if I find any.

Jen

_________________
Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series Auto CPAP Machine
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Additional Comments: Pressure Auto 12-20cm CPAP compliant since 2000
Other masks I've tried: *=liked, #= no way
Piliaro, SleepWeaver Elan*, Swift FX w&w/o Bella Loops#, OpitLife#,Simplicity*, Mirage Vista*, Go Life for Her#, IQ (original hg only)*, Quattro FX (barely)###, Wisp*, Nuance#, Swift LT for her**

User avatar
Goofproof
Posts: 16087
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:16 pm
Location: Central Indiana, USA

Re: What are good O2 Concentrators

Post by Goofproof » Fri May 30, 2014 10:38 pm

jencat824 wrote:
CpapWife wrote:

Jen, that helps to know that the price is dependent on the warranty. Sorry to hear about your husband, I hope you both enjoy the time he has left.
Sorry I wasn't clear, its my Hubby's brother that is dying. He is more like my child than a brother-in-law. I'm the family 'caregiver' & Bryan has been my 'problem-child' for years. We are all making the most of the time we have left with him.

Regarding the O2, another thought came to me - Inogen has another unit, weight 4.8lbs. It also comes with the carry bag, but I'm not sure about the cart. It might be ideal for travel due to its size. However, the battery runs for approx. 5 hrs on EITHER unit, so this might be a problem. You would need to ask how long it runs on 'pulse', timing might be OK, but that fact just popped into my head.

Keep searching the internet, I'm sure the answer is out there. I'll go back thru my notes & post any other useful info if I find any.

Jen
As I stated higher in this thread, pulse timing is not for XPAP use, period. Jim
Use data to optimize your xPAP treatment!

"The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire