OT: Juicing, blood sugar and losing weight

hello
I'm 50 pounds overweight, pre-diabetic and with medium high blood pressure.
Trying to lose weight and get it together. I'm 57 and it's been a long time coming.
I'm considering trying to drink vegetable juices for at least one meal a day.
I just purchased a nutribullet, which includes the pulp/fiber in the drink.

I'm wondering if anyone has had luck with juicing…losing weight and lowering their blood sugar?
Any thoughts or recommendations?

thanks

Evan

No personal experience with juicing, but here is a general diabetes minded diet that has shown Type II reversal:

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -diet-cure

There are a thousand and one diets, the best one is whatever you can make work really and make it keep working. I've always found counting calories or just being empirically mindful of input/output helpful for me but many have their own preferences, just like cpap!

nmevan wrote:hello
I'm 50 pounds overweight, pre-diabetic and with medium high blood pressure.
Trying to lose weight and get it together. I'm 57 and it's been a long time coming.
I'm considering trying to drink vegetable juices for at least one meal a day.
I just purchased a nutribullet, which includes the pulp/fiber in the drink.

I'm wondering if anyone has had luck with juicing…losing weight and lowering their blood sugar?
Any thoughts or recommendations?

thanks

Evan

Hi Evan!

What comes to mind as I read this is that added sugar (the most processed food) needs a "net" in our gut to slow the transfer into our system. Mine is created by lots of fiber (veggies, beans, fruits, and other whole foods) along with fermented foods. The net is a mix of undigestible fibrous mass in the gut being processed by the natural microbia (gut bugs).

While I see nothing wrong with vegetable juices I do not see how that will help.

The major issues with OSA and blood sugar that I know of are:

1. Events during the night. Any event is a stress hormone hit, which releases sugar into the blood, which you will unlikely use.

2. The fatigue of OSA tends to keep you away from the exercise which can stabilize blood sugar in your system. (Google: blood sugar exercise!!!).

3. The hormonal changes in your system due to OSA change your appetite making you long for calorie dense foods with quick release (sugars, starches, etc...).

I think a reasonable strategy to deal with this is:

1. Treat your OSA effectively. Rig for and use your nightly data. Reduce the nightly events.

2. Find and use the services of a good dietitian and personal trainer for at least three years. I did not really understand that learning to eat well and move well are life long learning skills. In my particular family little learning was available. If you are getting the nutrients you need and are putting them to good use (active lifestyle) your body will regulate your appetite properly which I do believe is the only way to really get a handle on the whole “energy balance” thing.

3. Make a conscious decision to limit the most processed food (added sugar) to less than 100g/day. For one thing eating added sugar tends to make you hungry. I try to keep below 40g/day.

I am pretty sure Juice will spike your blood sugar more than is good for you. It does me. Search out low glycemic foods as best you can.

Overflow wrote: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle ... -diet-cure
I've always found counting calories or just being empirically mindful of input/output helpful for me but many have their own preferences, just like cpap!

Ditto for the input/output statement. My GP always gives me the same message.

I don't get the referenced study. I've brought my body weight in-line with expected "normal" range and estimated my BMI as low as 16% (using a BMI capable scale not Hydrostatic Underwater Weighing). My diabetes was never cured and still required Metformin. I just don't get how someone with toes rotting off their feet can go through intensive weight loss by drinking a meal replacement shake and become diabetes free. I want that ... especially if it only requires two months of hunger pangs! Sign me up!

I'm a middle-aged, menopausal woman with OSA, severe insulin resistance from PCOS, and a heart condition that limits my ability to exercise to some degree. And I've lost 72 pounds and I'm in probably the best health I've ever been in since my early 20's. So I figure that all gives me a little street cred here.

I can tell you what has worked for me, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV), of course, but it's worth a try.

I follow a generally low carb, grain free diet of REAL FOOD. I don't eat grains, I limit starchy vegetables, I eat very little fruit, and choose low glycemic fruit when I do eat it (berries and melon in SMALL servings, not daily). I eat TONS of organic vegies, I eat pastured meat and eggs ad lib. I eat healthy, natural, non-inflammatory fats (coconut oil, pastured butter, olive oil, animal and dairy fats) in ABUNDANCE (I avoid canola, soy, seed and nut oils--they are highly inflammatory). I do not eat anything with added sugar. I don't generally eat packaged foods, and when I do, I only eat things that have no more than 3 ingredients. I include fermented foods (sauerkraut, pickles, fermented dairy) and non-alcoholic fermented drinks (Kombucha, kefir, kvass) daily.

The best, easiest to understand and follow explanation is here: http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf (be sure to scroll down, there's a LOT there!).

There's no calorie counting, no constant cardio exercise required. Just eat real food, eat to satiety--you never have to be hungry! Avoid things that spike your blood glucose and insulin levels, avoid fake foods, inflammatory foods, and toxins. One of the fastest effects is that you should see your blood pressure come down because your body is storing a lot of glycogen when you ingest a lot of carbs--each gram of glycogen carries with it 4 grams of water--that's sitting in your tissues, putting additional pressure on your blood vessels. You need to watch your blood pressure if you're on meds so it doesn't go too low. Don't skimp on salt, be sure to have plenty of potassium rich veggies, too (avocados are great for potassium). And drink lots of water!

IMHO, juicing is just concentrating calories so that they are easier to consume faster. To get good flavor, you will end up adding fruit or other sweeteners, and spike you blood glucose and insulin. And I don't hear that you intend to change up the rest of your diet at all, so you'll still be doing the things that spike your insulin otherwise. Juicing one meal may be better than whatever else you might be eating at that meal, but don't expect it to be the miracle for your weight and health that you are hoping for.

thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts!

Todzo wrote:1. Events during the night. Any event is a stress hormone hit, which releases sugar into the blood, which you will unlikely use.

Good explanation. I've been trying to figure out why my morning glucose levels were so high. Trying to associate with previous meals was futile. I just assumed it was an unexplained liver dump. Carefully managed OSA will hopefully result in lower blood sugar levels in the morning. I intend to monitor closely during the next six months.

Todzo wrote:2. The fatigue of OSA tends to keep you away from the exercise which can stabilize blood sugar in your system. (Google: blood sugar exercise!!!).

That search led me to "Why Do Blood Glucose Levels Sometimes Go Up after Physical Activity?" and "Why does Exercise increase Blood Glucose?". This has been happening to me lately. As a pre-diabetic OP should be fine. Good idea to have a meter and check glucose levels before and after exercise sessions.

nmevan wrote:I'm wondering if anyone has had luck with juicing…losing weight and lowering their blood sugar? Any thoughts or recommendations?

Most of my meals can be roughly estimated at 1 calorie per gram. I don't know how dense the calories are with juicing but it's hard to imagine being content with downing a shot of brussels sprout juice compared to the satisfaction of just eating them. Portion size, and the number of calories have given me expectations and habits for my meals. Hard to imagine juicing vegetables would result in anything good.

As always it comes down to diet and exercise. Whole foods and watch calories and glycemic index. Test, test, test with a glucose meter and it will tell you if you are on the right track. Get outside and walk if you are able. The pounds will melt away.

Go by what your blood sugar/glucose meter says. I'm assuming you HAVE one and some strips.
Do a Google search on "Fructose, glucose and sucrose" and start reading.
Fruits and vegetables have varying amounts of those sugars and carbohydrates......which affect your blood sugar.......as does exercise.
So, read the labels, do Internet searches and study up on them.


Den

.

Janknitz wrote:I'm a middle-aged, menopausal woman with OSA, severe insulin resistance from PCOS, and a heart condition that limits my ability to exercise to some degree. And I've lost 72 pounds and I'm in probably the best health I've ever been in since my early 20's. So I figure that all gives me a little street cred here.

I can tell you what has worked for me, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV), of course, but it's worth a try.

I follow a generally low carb, grain free diet of REAL FOOD. I don't eat grains, I limit starchy vegetables, I eat very little fruit, and choose low glycemic fruit when I do eat it (berries and melon in SMALL servings, not daily). I eat TONS of organic vegies, I eat pastured meat and eggs ad lib. I eat healthy, natural, non-inflammatory fats (coconut oil, pastured butter, olive oil, animal and dairy fats) in ABUNDANCE (I avoid canola, soy, seed and nut oils--they are highly inflammatory). I do not eat anything with added sugar. I don't generally eat packaged foods, and when I do, I only eat things that have no more than 3 ingredients. I include fermented foods (sauerkraut, pickles, fermented dairy) and non-alcoholic fermented drinks (Kombucha, kefir, kvass) daily.

The best, easiest to understand and follow explanation is here: http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf (be sure to scroll down, there's a LOT there!).

There's no calorie counting, no constant cardio exercise required. Just eat real food, eat to satiety--you never have to be hungry! Avoid things that spike your blood glucose and insulin levels, avoid fake foods, inflammatory foods, and toxins. One of the fastest effects is that you should see your blood pressure come down because your body is storing a lot of glycogen when you ingest a lot of carbs--each gram of glycogen carries with it 4 grams of water--that's sitting in your tissues, putting additional pressure on your blood vessels. You need to watch your blood pressure if you're on meds so it doesn't go too low. Don't skimp on salt, be sure to have plenty of potassium rich veggies, too (avocados are great for potassium). And drink lots of water!

Your diet is very similar to mine except that I also eliminate most animal proteins ... essentially Vegan except for an egg-white omelet in the morning. I most definitely count calories and eat 5 smaller meals a day. I measure macro nutrients but do not restrict carbohydrates. The downside of this method is the significant time allotment to exercise and meal preparation. Perhaps time spent exercising could have been optimized by hiring a personal trainer but I exercised using methods that made me feel good: hiking, biking, interval jogging, elliptical, and a bit of resistance training. Any nutritionists I had access to were a complete waste of time.

Stats collected over sixteen months show my progress in 2010. Not shown are my A1C but they were always between 6.0 mmol/l (108.1 mg/dl) and 6.8 mmol/l (122 mg/dl). I never considered the significant effort I spent exercising as improving my blood glucose levels as much as I had hoped. Post meal measurements are always terrible although postprandial is consistently less than 7.0 mmol/l (126 md/dl). My cholesterol is so low the normal measurement ratios and calculations of good vs. bad do not apply.

I think I'm going to do this meticulous record keeping again this time with low carbohydrates, less exercise (say an hour instead of 2 1/2 per day), and eat as much as I want. My motivation is to get blood sugars below 5.8. Why change? I injured myself renovating my house and can't exercise with such intensity or long periods without causing more injury. I need time to heal. A slightly less strenuous exercise regimen may help. This is worth a shot.

I east meat, plenty of animal fat, especially egg yolks, and my A1c is 5.3. Hmmm
. . .

I do not own a glucose meter. Perhaps I should? I seem to have invented in my mind that pre-diabetes is not diabetes and so I have not taken it as seriously as I'm sure I should have…though I plan to now. I also keep telling myself that I'm going to get my act together and that magically the threat of developing full-fledged diabetes will disappear. Sadly, I've been telling myself that for years.

Unfortunately, my A1c is 6.0 as of about 6 months ago. I just looked it up since a couple of people mentioned it in this post.

I posted the following information for a couple of folks who mentioned their A1c results.

According to ADA guidelines, hemoglobin A1c <7.0% represents optimal
control in non-pregnant diabetic patients. Different metrics may apply
to specific patient populations. Standards of Medical Care in
Diabetes-2013. Diabetes Care. 2013;36:s11-s66

For the purpose of screening for the presence of diabetes
<5.7% Consistent with the absence of diabetes
5.7-6.4 % Consistent with increased risk for diabetes (prediabetes)
> or = 6.5 % Consistent with diabetes

This assay result is consistent with an increased risk of diabetes.

Currently, no consensus exist for use of hemoglobin A1C for diagnosis
of diabetes for children.

nmevan wrote:I do not own a glucose meter. Perhaps I should? I seem to have invented in my mind that pre-diabetes is not diabetes and so I have not taken it as seriously as I'm sure I should have…though I plan to now. I also keep telling myself that I'm going to get my act together and that magically the threat of developing full-fledged diabetes will disappear. Sadly, I've been telling myself that for years.

Unfortunately, my A1c is 6.0 as of about 6 months ago. I just looked it up since a couple of people mentioned it in this post.

I believe that yes, you should own a glucose meter and use it to make lifestyle corrections now. It is easy to ignore the early signs and then make the task so much harder later on.

Janknitz wrote:I east meat, plenty of animal fat, especially egg yolks, and my A1c is 5.3. Hmmm . . .

A lot of people report excellent results using LCHF meal plans and I have no reason to doubt them. The only reason I eliminate animal proteins is to reduce dietary cholesterol and thus lower overall cholesterol as measured by a blood test. That was a complete success. I get acceptable A1C results by carefully managing calories in and calories out. Now I wish to reduce post meal blood sugar spikes and maintain good cholesterol management. Let's see what LCHF can do for me.

NMevan, you may want to read through this website: http://www.bloodsugar101.com Click on "What is Normal Blood Sugar?"

A truly normal A1c is between 4.6% and 5.4%

A1cs are not as good a measure of actual blood sugar control in individuals as they are for groups. An A1c of 5.1% maps to an average blood sugar of 100 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/L) or less when group statistics are analyzed, but normal variations in how our red blood cells work make the A1cs of truly normal individuals fall into a wider range.

Some people's A1cs are always a bit higher than their measured blood sugars would predict. Some are always lower. NOTE: If you are anemic your A1c will not reflect your actual blood sugar control as the way the A1c test is analyzed assumes you have a normal number of red blood cells.
for many years the American Diabetes Association specifically stated that the A1c test should not be used for diagnosing diabetes. They recently changed their recommendations to allow the use of A1c for diagnosis, however the A1c often misses diabetes in people whose red blood cells are not entirely normal.

Heart attack risk rises in a straight line fashion as A1c rises from 4.6%. You can learn more about the relationship of heart disease and blood sugar test results on this page: A1c and Post-Meal Blood Sugars Predict Heart Attack.

Laboratory norms are often NOT the best way to judge your health. My doctor thinks my A1c is "great", but I think I still have work to do.

Janknitz wrote:I east meat, plenty of animal fat, especially egg yolks, and my A1c is 5.3. Hmmm
. . .

Yup. I am now seeing waking blood sugars at 99 mg/dl (5.4 mmol/l) and post-prandial within 45 minutes at 102 mg/dl (5.6 mmol/l). Blood test in about two months should hopefully validate other measurements too. BTW, I have not seen BG readings below 6.0 in 20 years. This is good stuff. Thank you for raising my awareness.



Just one caution: with LCHF my post exercise BG spiked to over 181 mg/dl (10.0 mmol/l). I slightly reduced my morning workout effort to keep heart rate below 120 bpm and that has eliminated the spike (apparently I may have Hepatic insulin resistance). Don't know if this is just a temporary or permanent adjustment.

BTW, I lost 4 lbs this week even having cut my exercise routine from 2 1/2 hours to 60 minutes.

nmevan wrote:I'm considering trying to drink vegetable juices for at least one meal a day.

In addition to concentrating calories you may ultimately concentrate your carbohydrate load. Based on my limited testing with very low carbohydrate / high fat (LCHF) way-of-eating, but years of experience with high carbohydrate vegan and SAD, you may actually harm yourself. To maintain control of BG and weight when consuming a plant based, high carbohydrate diet, requires a lot of physical activity to burn through the carbohydrates. I did this for years so it can work but if you''re looking for the path of least resistance then juicing of fruit or vegetables is probably the wrong direction.

Your meter will tell you the truth!