Manometer

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Do any of you CPAP users own a manometer? I spoke to CPAP.com yesterday about one and they recommended this one which sells for $78.00:

I'm newcomer to the world of personal CPAP and picked up an F&P HD-200 water manometer that cpap.com offered for $49.00 – https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... amber.html. Past experience leads me to believe that water manometry is the gold standard in "affordable" tools for pressure measurement. The device consistently reported 12 cm/H2O for my new REMstar DS460TS which is set to 12 cm/H2O on several trial runs. I was quite pleased with it's design and durability and on the whole I see no reason to doubt it's accuracy or repeatility

Stevoreno,
I just had a split study in January, and I've never heard of a 2-night study where they make you wait a week for the second night... that is totally unnecessary in this computer age.

library lady wrote:Stevoreno,
I just had a split study in January, and I've never heard of a 2-night study where they make you wait a week for the second night... that is totally unnecessary in this computer age.

Well that's what 3 labs told me yesterday; I'm in Mississippi and we always seem to be in last place as well as behind the times. I've undergone 4 sleep studies since my first one in 1999 and everyone of them were 2 night studies. The first night I was wired up like Frankenstein with belts around my stomach; wires attached to my head and my legs and on that first night I slept without a machine; I returned to the sleep lab facility the next night for my second night part of the test and I was wired up again but on the second night I slept on a machine.



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
04/10/14

critterdoc wrote:

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Do any of you CPAP users own a manometer? I spoke to CPAP.com yesterday about one and they recommended this one which sells for $78.00:

I'm newcomer to the world of personal CPAP and picked up an F&P HD-200 water manometer that cpap.com offered for $49.00 – https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... amber.html. Past experience leads me to believe that water manometry is the gold standard in "affordable" tools for pressure measurement. The device consistently reported 12 cm/H2O for my new REMstar DS460TS which is set to 12 cm/H2O on several trial runs. I was quite pleased with it's design and durability and on the whole I see no reason to doubt it's accuracy or repeatility

So you would rate the one you have as being better than the other one sold on CPAP.com for $78.00?



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
04/10/14

Stevoreno_55 wrote:

critterdoc wrote:

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Do any of you CPAP users own a manometer? I spoke to CPAP.com yesterday about one and they recommended this one which sells for $78.00:

I'm newcomer to the world of personal CPAP and picked up an F&P HD-200 water manometer that cpap.com offered for $49.00 – https://www.cpap.com/productpage/fisher ... amber.html. Past experience leads me to believe that water manometry is the gold standard in "affordable" tools for pressure measurement. The device consistently reported 12 cm/H2O for my new REMstar DS460TS which is set to 12 cm/H2O on several trial runs. I was quite pleased with it's design and durability and on the whole I see no reason to doubt it's accuracy or repeatility

So you would rate the one you have as being better than the other one sold on CPAP.com for $78.00?

Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
04/10/14

Again based on my experience in medicine over 40 years, pressure measurements with water or mercury rising in calibrated tubes is the most reliable method of accessing a baseline level. If a water manometer tells you that your device is producing 13 cm/H2O pressure and it's digital readout says 10 cm/H2O then I'd put my money on 13 being the correct number. On the other hand I would not be anyway near as sure about the accuracy of mechanical gauge that requires mechanical deflection of a diaphragm to measure pressure.

critterdoc wrote:Again based on my experience in medicine over 40 years, pressure measurements with water or mercury rising in calibrated tubes is the most reliable method of accessing a baseline level. If a water manometer tells you that your device is producing 13 cm/H2O pressure and it's digital readout says 10 cm/H2O then I'd put my money on 13 being the correct number. On the other hand I would not be anyway near as sure about the accuracy of mechanical gauge that requires mechanical deflection of a diaphragm to measure pressure.

Being an instrument engineer for 40 years I completely agree with this!
Unless you add something to change the density of the water it has to be accurate.
I love gauges, but due to the mechanical design they drift over time.

ok so who is gonna explain to stevo how to do that bucket o water test on his machine

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Well that's what 3 labs told me yesterday; I'm in Mississippi and we always seem to be in last place as well as behind the times.

could that be cuz you asked them about a 2 nite study

fact is if your doc orders a split nite
that is what you will get
a split nite

time to insist to the doc that is what you want

Stevoreno_55 wrote:

library lady wrote:Stevoreno,
I just had a split study in January, and I've never heard of a 2-night study where they make you wait a week for the second night... that is totally unnecessary in this computer age.

Well that's what 3 labs told me yesterday; I'm in Mississippi and we always seem to be in last place as well as behind the times. I've undergone 4 sleep studies since my first one in 1999 and everyone of them were 2 night studies. The first night I was wired up like Frankenstein with belts around my stomach; wires attached to my head and my legs and on that first night I slept without a machine; I returned to the sleep lab facility the next night for my second night part of the test and I was wired up again but on the second night I slept on a machine.

First off, a split night study is not necessarily better than a two night study (one diagnostic night and one therapeutic night). In the two night study, they have a better opportunity to assess your sleep across the full night of the first night, in all positions, and in all stages of sleep, and on the second night they have more time to see you in all positions and stages and to make sure that you are full titrated when you are at your worst. In a split night study, sometimes there just isn't enough time for all of this to happen.

Secondly, to address the comment about time between studies being unnecessary in this day and age... Yes, I agree, but unfortunately most of the problem today comes from the insurance companies. Nowadays they want to see the results of a diagnostic study before they approve a titration study and a PAP machine - and often this can take quite a long time and a lot of back and forth between the sleep center and your doctor and the insurance company before the insurance company will agree to cover you - sometimes even months.

It is also worth noting that while you can ask for what you prefer, some insurance companies will approve only split night studies, while some will approve only full night diagnostic studies followed by full night titration studies.

Guest wrote:

Stevoreno_55 wrote:Well that's what 3 labs told me yesterday; I'm in Mississippi and we always seem to be in last place as well as behind the times.

could that be cuz you asked them about a 2 nite study

fact is if your doc orders a split nite
that is what you will get
a split nite

time to insist to the doc that is what you want

Not necessarily - if the insurance does not cover split night studies and only covers full night diagnostics followed by full night titrations, then fact is your split night could cost you the full price out of pocket, to the tune of several thousands of dollars.
Oh - and also, even if a split night is ordered, if you don't exhibit enough respiratory events to meet criteria to initiate PAP therapy, or if you don't have sufficient sleep time during the first portion of the night, you might not be split anyway. (This is to ensure that the insurance company will pay for your PAP machine as well as to ensure that you are not put on PAP unnecessarily.)

Bama Rambler wrote:

critterdoc wrote:Again based on my experience in medicine over 40 years, pressure measurements with water or mercury rising in calibrated tubes is the most reliable method of accessing a baseline level. If a water manometer tells you that your device is producing 13 cm/H2O pressure and it's digital readout says 10 cm/H2O then I'd put my money on 13 being the correct number. On the other hand I would not be anyway near as sure about the accuracy of mechanical gauge that requires mechanical deflection of a diaphragm to measure pressure.

Being an instrument engineer for 40 years I completely agree with this!
Unless you add something to change the density of the water it has to be accurate.
I love gauges, but due to the mechanical design they drift over time.

This little baby is the model of simplicity and it would probably take some major trauma to break it's all plastic parts. In contrast to the muted and rather mundane nature of most hand held electronic manometers that I've ever seen this little guy can rotate through a myriad of color options at the will of the hosehead OP.

Seriously though, I was perplexed to note that the adapter which supports the vertical calibrated manometer tube also contains what appears to be in effect a vertical "vent" which completely penetrates the height of the adaptor "cap" adjacent and parallel to the calibrated tube. When the blower is powered up the venting orifice open it blows a forceful airstream which exits the "vent" blowing above the top end of the calibrated tube. Yet blocking airflow thorough the open oriface with a finger tip appears to only minutely effect the height of column of water in the tube. Why would one want a vent a low pressure manometer chamber to the atmosphere?

Guest wrote:ok so who is gonna explain to stevo how to do that bucket o water test on his machine

I thought post #3 in this thread explained it pretty well - guess not, huh?

critterdoc wrote:This little baby is the model of simplicity and it would probably take some major trauma to break it's all plastic parts. In contrast to the muted and rather mundane nature of most hand held electronic manometers that I've ever seen this little guy can rotate through a myriad of color options at the will of the hosehead OP.

Seriously though, I was perplexed to note that the adapter which supports the vertical calibrated manometer tube also contains what appears to be in effect a vertical "vent" which completely penetrates the height of the adaptor "cap" adjacent and parallel to the calibrated tube. When the blower is powered up the venting orifice open it blows a forceful airstream which exits the "vent" blowing above the top end of the calibrated tube. Yet blocking airflow thorough the open oriface with a finger tip appears to only minutely effect the height of column of water in the tube. Why would one want a vent a low pressure manometer chamber to the atmosphere?

Some blowers can't maintain a constant pressure if the discharge is completely blocked, so for those blowers, you need a vent. Your unit apparently is designed so that it can maintain pressure with a completely blocked discharge.

Guest wrote:ok so who is gonna explain to stevo how to do that bucket o water test on his machine

"Guest" why don't you come right out and identify yourself? You're acting like a troll again. Every discussion board has at least one and you are one "Guest". MODs are you listening?



Stevoreno_55
MS Gulf Coast
04/10/14

Jay Aitchsee wrote:

Guest wrote:ok so who is gonna explain to stevo how to do that bucket o water test on his machine

I thought post #3 in this thread explained it pretty well - guess not, huh?

ya me 3
guess that is why no one replied