Recommendations for cpaps

I notice that many, if not all of the recommendations for CPAPs are for the PB units, and occ. a Remstar. I have a Devilbiss 9001D that I think is terrific. It is small and really quiet. Are other brands not mentioned because cpap.com doesn't sell them, or are PBs really the best - because I really want one of the best? Just wondering...

The PB's seem to have a greater following (porportionately) on this particular message board based on social dynamics more than discerning technical reasons or reasons of medical efficacy IMHO. A few posters here who immensely enjoyed their 420e machines (for good reason) very strongly pitched them---again and again! That is what I call a word-of-mouth or grass-roots movement!

They are truly great machines, but so are the others IMO.

Hey Hey Hey, I resemble that remark.. Different Auto units work better for different people. Any fixed level unit should be the same asfar as effectiveness goes. Its different with the auto units. For instance, My Resmed Spirit gives me AHI and HI of 10 - 15 consistantly. Switch to a PB 420 E and it goes down to less than 1. It being the smallest and 12Volt capable is just icing. Oh yea the oftware is 1/2 the cost of resmeds also.

Its also the least expensive , But its French

You see its not all social dynamics. Its just more friendly.

Cheers,

Chris

My AHI is now between 1.1 and 1.6 with my new sleep partner! Untreated I had an AHI over 60. I also have a PB GoodKnight 420E and now look forward to bedtime...I put on my interface, turn on my side, hit the ON button...and wake up 6-8 hours later feeling great.

I wish that I had done this about five years ago!

BigE

Heheh! Not too sound like a 420e part-crasher! I've been entertaining the idea of buying a travel-friendly 420e for quite some time. Only problem is I seldom travel, and my RemStar Auto does a superb job on my breathing patterns.

I have seen posts in which users have abondoned any given AutoPAP model in favor of each/every of the competitors' AutoPAPs for reasons of personal efficacy and/or comfort. Each of the AutoPAPs seem have their narrow percentages of "less than ideal" patient breathing patterns, which the other manufacturer's AutoPAPs just may or may not address better, algorithmically speaking.

Of course, when it comes to fixed pressure CPAP machines, algorithm does not really factor in. Physical feature issues and/or price seem to drive those preferences. For BiLevels, physical features, price, spontaneous/timed capabilities, and even algorithm compatibility (toward trigger, IPAP/EPAP synch, and comfort) all factor in.

To each his own!

Hi SWS,

Have I surpased my limit on "pitching" the PB 420E? Are you saying I'm not technicaly discerning. For those of us fitting the social dymnamic that causes us to endlessly "pitch" the PB420E your comments sound rather disingenuous from a usally very informative poster. It may be that there is a disproportionate number of cpap.com customers on this forum but you will notice that though there is a link to cpaptalk from the cpap.com site, but there is not a backward link to cpap.com here. On many of the other forums I find myself "wading thru" the shameless "pitching" of their products and sponsors. But I digress. My solution to this "disproportionate" dilema is for you to chime in with your PB alternative everytime a poster asks for a recommendation on what machine to get.

All this said, I have enjoyed your posts on the other forums and I am thrilled to see you join us here at cpaptalk. Your educated and informative posts are always welcome here. Even if they occasionaly ruffle a few feathers.

wading thru the muck! wrote:Hi SWS,

Have I surpased my limit on "pitching" the PB 420E? Are you saying I'm not technicaly discerning. For those of us fitting the social dymnamic that causes us to endlessly "pitch" the PB420E your comments sound rather disingenuous from a usally very informative poster.

Please don't take my comment to heart, Wader. It wasn't intended in any way to be a bashing or a trashing of the 420e or the fine users who recommend them here---yourself included! But the truth of the matter is that while we can all be technically appreciative of what our AutoPAPs do for us, none of us (myself included) can be truly technically discerning about them. The manufacturers all very jealously guard the low-level technical details regarding their machine designs, algorithmic shortcomings (which really should be mandatory contraindications in my opinion), and even efficacy rates relative to the general SDB population----let alone efficacy relative to specific sleep-event types. The majority of information we typically receive from the manufacturers are intended as vehicles toward increasing "marketing appeal".

When I said that "social dynamics" likely factor in more than anything else, I meant that in earnest and with no disrespect to anyone. But I also meant it as a reality check with respect to the very original question posted at the top of this thread. Chrisp had better luck with the AutoSet than the 420e, but Dareman on the other boards had better luck with the AutoSet than the 420e. To "pitch" a machine here is not a bad thing. It is a psychological tendency that I have seen on each message board, and for each AutoPAP brand/model. It is not a statement of: "Hey guys, the highly detailed and comparative efficacy data is finally in!" (which will likely never happen until the FDA gets reasonable about this equipment). Rather it's a statement more like: "Hey folks, check my brand AuoPAP out! It works well for me and I like features X, Y, Z". While that latter statement is not of an adequate depth to be technically discerning, it is but an anecdote versus a genuine statistical data point. Multiply that conversational tendency for any given xPAP to build popularity, and you have a popularity that was constructed from social dynamics versus an academic or truly medicinal approach.

Is it bad that the 420e's poplularity has grown here in that manner? No! The 420e is a great little machine. Would I recommend that 420e owners abate their enthusiasm here regarding their recomendations? No! I simply intended to answer the original poster's question without ruffling feathers.

My apologies if I did! Friends I hope!

Business? Politics? Business Politics!!!!

Hoseheads beware...don't take everything at face value. Do your research from dedicated medical resources/research. Watch out on sites which are tied to any business. The data may be 'distorted' and extremely subjective.

FlyingSwede

For Sale, Resmed Spirit with heated humidifier. Replaced by PB 420E.
Humidifier is new. Spirit just returned from Resmed with upgrade.

$450.00

Sells new at cpap.com for $770.

PM me if interested.

Cheers,

Chris

Anonymous wrote:Business? Politics? Business Politics!!!!

Hoseheads beware...don't take everything at face value. Do your research from dedicated medical resources/research. Watch out on sites which are tied to any business. The data may be 'distorted' and extremely subjective.

FlyingSwede

Oh, I hope I'm not digging myself into a bigger hole here with my own views which are intended to be honest and sincere.

With that said, does anyone here know of a source of truly unbiased AutoPAP comparisons that **ALSO** factors in information of adequate breadth and depth?

I had a two week trial on a Remstar Auto. According to the DME my average AHI was 1.1. Is that a good number? Could I expect to do better with a Resmed Spirit?

needsleep wrote:I had a two week trial on a Remstar Auto. According to the DME my average AHI was 1.1. Is that a good number? Could I expect to do better with a Resmed Spirit?

An AHI of 1.1 is a great number while using any AutoPAP. There's no way to be certain whether a Spirit or 420e will fare better or worse short of actually trying it.

Hi SWS,

We have a few posters on this forum like the FlyingSwede that like to "shake things up" You're not putting yourself in a big hole by expressing your honest and sincere views.

I wouldn't look for any independent comparative analysis of cpap equipment anytime soon. In my admittedly anecdotal experience the medical profesion has not yet decided to take on the responsability of administering treatment of OSA. If they choose to subcontract the most important factor in successful treatment they surley not going to spend money on studying the comparative efficacy of these modes of treatment.

Thanks again for your participation on "this" forum.

Thanks, Wader. I think you just figured out where my statement was based. It was relative to an ideal regarding information. With that said, I probably have over 1500 CPAP/OSA related posts here and there. Not a single one of my posts is adequately "technically discerning" relative to that degree of information that is required to see the big efficacy picture.

You, I and many others make plenty of technical distinctions in our posts, but what we say is anecdotal versus scientific or otherwise methodically investigative. Our unvalidated conversational anecdotes and recommendations, at least in my mind, are primarily vehicles of social dynamics. And yet, they are sadly the best that most patients seem to have. When you and others give that 420e glowing recommendations, those anecdotes accomplish one very important function here: it gives readers a vague idea that the 420e is a high quality machine for most who post here. But those recommendations don't give readers any sort of statistical context of the 420e's performance relative to other models or relative to the patient population as a whole.

Now I have to make one slight confesion here. I am such an iconoclast by nature, preoccupied with analytical truths, that sometimes I simply don't realize when I have stated something in a "less than ideal" manner, socially speaking. I do appreciate your not taking offense to my views, and realizing that what I had to say about the 420e's popularity was merely a detached and analytical statement with respect to an ideal regarding information exchange. I really do wish I had worded that first post of mine differently.

From a unscientific point of view "Figures lie and liers figure" lets not forget ENRON. Now those accountants were highly trained "Experts" in their field . I'd rather have 1000 anecdotal atta boys from happy CPAPers than some technical BS whose data is locked up in the patent office .

That said I really enjoy reading comments from SWS. He has a way of making all that BS user friendly.

Waverly