mars: update on sleep positional therapy?

[napstress]

Hi, Mars.

I've noticed that you have written quite a bit about sleep positional therapy and was wondering if you'd be willing to give an update about what you are doing, what has continued to work, etc.

For the past 3 weeks, I have (finally) been consistently sleeping at least 6.5 hours/night without going into insomnia mode in the middle. This is a miracle for me: I've had insomnia for over 20 years, and it became aggravated when I started CPAP therapy 16 months ago. However, I wake in the morning exhausted, take a mid-morning nap and wake exhausted, take a mid-afternoon nap and wake exhausted, can scarcely stay awake until bedtime, and then sleep straight through, like I mentioned. This could be sleep debt. I could go for a blood test to make sure nothing new has cropped up since the last one a couple of years ago, which showed that *everything* was fine, except for a Vit. D deficiency that I have since corrected. I am not on any medications, and have checked my supplements with an acupuncturist for anything that might make me sleepy. Finally, my AHI is generally around 3.5 on CPAP with minimal leaks. The only unusual thing I am doing is a gluten-free, low-carb, dairy-free diet, but I hear from many people that this type of diet increases energy.

I am addressing you in particular because even though my numbers are good, I am aware of waking up 3-4 times per night. I haven't thought much of it because I have been in a state of deep gratitude that I simply roll over and fall asleep again. But I have noticed that every, single time I wake up, I am on my back, despite having fallen asleep on my side. On my sleep study, my RDI was 45 events/hour, with 92 events/hour supine. (My sleep specialist said I have RERAs/UARS, not apnea, due to a long, narrow nose-throat system and deviated septum). I don't know if I am thinking about this correctly, but if my untreated RDI is 45, and supine is 92, then wouldn't the law of averages suggest that I have an average of 0 events/hour on my side?

Up until now, I have avoided restricting my sleep position. I feel I restrict myself physically enough during the day (I'm sort of tense and cerebral). I did the tennis balls for one night, but my attempts at rolling onto my back kept waking me up. I was a waste-case the next day. Another time, I stuffed my blankets behind my back, only to wake up with my neck twisting so my face was up. It seems my body really wants my face to be up! But at this point, I'm thinking I might revisit sleep positional therapy.

I'm not sure if the awakenings are because my tongue is blocking my throat, or if it's because my FFM leaks when I roll onto my back. Either way, sleep positional therapy might do the trick.

I'd love to know what you are doing now that's working for you. Any advice?

[avi123]

If I enter "mars" in the above search box I get 2757 threads. Most of them relate to the planet Mars. Is this your addressee?

[napstress]

Hey, if the planet ruled by the god of war can help, I'll listen to him!

[nanwilson]

Naptress
Just give mars a pm and he will get back to you.

[Julie]

I think if you wanted to pm Mars, do so... hopefully he will get it and reply.

[jnk]

I miss Mars. I consider it my fault that he left. I hope he is doing well.

Mars is the expert on the positional stuff, but here is some recent info that may be helpful:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22261242

https://www.positietherapie.nl/download ... 120305.pdf

To my way of thinking, the wording in the following quote sums things up nicely:

"The most effective treatment for moderate-to-severe OSA is nighttime positive airway pressure therapy. . . . Patients with mild OSA may try positional therapy, oral appliances, or weight loss. Assuming a side-lying position while asleep or raising the head of the bed may help reduce airway obstruction, but in more severe cases, the airway collapses no matter what position the sleeper chooses." -- http://journals.lww.com/nursingmadeincr ... 0100319xMP

[avi123]

In the second link by jnk this device is mentioned:

In an attempt to decrease discomfort and improve compliance,
our group developed a new treatment concept: a
small neck-worn vibrating device which prevents patients
from applying a supine sleeping position [53]. When wearing
the device, adopting a supine position triggers a vibration
which increases in intensity until a new position is
adopted, without significantly reducing total sleep time or
disrupting sleep. Thirty patients with positional sleep apnea
were included in a pilot study. No side effects were reported.

We need to find out where to get this device. A few posters are tinkering now to develop a similar device.

See it here:

Torso position determined via accelerometer!

viewtopic/t78748/Torso-position-determi ... meter.html

[SleepingUgly]

Well, if Mars is unlikely to write back, I'll write...

Finally, my AHI is generally around 3.5 on CPAP with minimal leaks.

I don't blame you for being tired on 6.5 hours of sleep. That's not enough for most people.

What pressure are you on? Have you tried a higher pressure? Some people claim that they can feel a big difference in EDS at an AHI of 3 vs. lower.

I have been sleeping with a fanny pack and tennis balls lately. Yes, it can wake me at times, but I think sleeping on my back may have enough drawbacks (for me, aerophagia, for you, more events) that it's worth it and I don't notice it as much as I did at first. I also use a body pillow, so there is a certain amount of rearranging things that occurs during the night (e.g., move the pillow, shift the fanny pack, etc.). Not ideal, but maybe (or not) better than the alternative of sleeping in poor positions.

[avi123]

Here is the device mentioned in my above post:

http://www.buzzpod.com.au/product.html

But how much it costs?

[ChicagoGranny]

I checked on member Mars and it has been seven months since he posted. It doesn't seem he will come back.

What unique things was he doing? What were his links about?

Right JNK ?

My plan is to continue posting in my usual manner--stating my opinions without stooping to personal attacks in response to those whose opinions differ from mine.

If you are now choosing to begin a pattern of doing the same, then I certainly wish you the best in that endeavor, Sir, and will support it to the best of my ability, whether you choose to apologize publicly for your repeated name-calling and accusations toward me and others or not.

*handshake*

Given that you are the one who has lied, and misinformed people, and doctored quotes to suit your agenda, then no - I will not be apologising. Your poll is a sham, you do not invite people to vote after they have checked out my links, so most would be unaware of why I am exposing you.

_SWS tried to finish this, and I went along with him. But your ungracious, insincere and sanctimonious reply does not deserve a handshake. And should you continue to lie and misinform on anything I post, or use other identities to hassle me, - I will continue to expose you.

However, I will let this drop now, no matter what you do, as further hassle is pointless.


Mars

[Julie]

Chicago Granny - here's the link..

viewtopic/t79383/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=70 ... py#p663453

[ChicagoGranny]

Thank you Julie.