Getting used to not sleeping on my back

[tomma]

I've finally gotten my AHI down to a more acceptable level by staying off my back. It's incredibly hard though, I have to sleep with a shirt with a small sized football stitched to it. While it helps with the therapy, my sleep is incredibly fragmented due to the discomfort of having to sleep on one side or the other all night. I'm up every 60-90 minutes, all night. I guess I might get used to it at some point, but after sleeping on my back for 40 years it probably won't be quick.

Are there any other tricks or pointers for either getting used to this, or maybe different ways to do it? I thought I saw something about a neck collar, although I don't know exactly how that would help, maybe I misread.

Thanks

[Carmen]

Rather than learning not to sleep on your back, I would encourage you to figure out what settings you need to comfortably sleep in that position. I need only about an 8 for side sleeping but need at least a 12 on my back and my apap sometimes takes the pressure up as high as 18.

The reason I think this is important is that sooner or later almost everyone winds up in the hospital where they WILL have you on your back. I recently spent over two weeks hospitalized and was more or less trapped in bed like a bug in amber.With drains, oxygen, and IVs I really had no choice but to sleep on my back and I was VERY glad I'd taken the time to figure out what I needed for back sleeping.

[tomma]

That was one of the first things I tried! Going all the way to 20 helped some, but didn't take care of all of them. Not to mention it's near impossible to keep a mask from blowing off your face at those pressures!

[49er]

I've finally gotten my AHI down to a more acceptable level by staying off my back. It's incredibly hard though, I have to sleep with a shirt with a small sized football stitched to it. While it helps with the therapy, my sleep is incredibly fragmented due to the discomfort of having to sleep on one side or the other all night. I'm up every 60-90 minutes, all night. I guess I might get used to it at some point, but after sleeping on my back for 40 years it probably won't be quick.

Are there any other tricks or pointers for either getting used to this, or maybe different ways to do it? I thought I saw something about a neck collar, although I don't know exactly how that would help, maybe I misread.

Thanks

Hi Tomma,

I am the one who has used a neck collar along with a full face mask to keep my AHI below 5 when I sleep on the machine. I can use a pressure of 6 with this setup. Otherwise, I would need around 20.

I can't explain why it works but it does. This is just a guess but I suspect that the the full face mask is pulling my jaw back and the neck collar somehow is having a reverse action.

Hard to say.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

49er

[cosmo]

I'm going to try this neck collar of yours. Looks cheap enough to try it out.

I already look like a freak with the mask, now I'll look like a freak and a crippled

[Christine L]

For tomma:

Sleeping Beauty

This type of sleeper sleeps on the side, back slightly curled with knees bent and arms folded.

The problem - None. This is the healthiest position to sleep in. This posture complements the natural curvature of the spine.

To make it even better - Add comfort and reduce stress on the hips by putting a pillow between your knees. Use a pillow of moderate height to support the head. Try a water pillow that can be easily adjusted. If there is room, stretch arms out front. If you have high blood pressure, try sleeping on the left side. If you are prone to kidney stones on one side, side-sleep on the other side.

[Pugsy]

I always have thought that using pain/discomfort was anti productive when trying to stay off one's back when sleeping.
Aversion therapy can take weeks to work.
We are trading one sleep disruption (maybe apneas) for another.
Can you maybe try something that is not so uncomfortable?
Back when I was experimenting to see if my pressure needs varied with supine and side sleeping I tried several things to keep me on my side but they were more comfortable things. Like wedge pillows that I would just fall back on. I had the best luck with a bed pillow filled with buckwheat hulls. Regular bed pillows would slide out from under me but the buckwheat hull pillow was heavier so it was much harder for it to slide around. It is also very comfortable to lean against and not nearly so apt as to wake me up.

If you can figure out something to prop up against your back that is comfortable when leaned against, yet will keep you on your side or sort of on your side...then maybe you won't wake up a gazillion times each night.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Tomma, I have to agree with Pugsy. I've tried everything to stay off my back. Pillows, back pack filled with pillows, etc., etc. Problems is, I always woke up on my back on top of whatever it was that I was using and still ended up with fragmented sleep. One thing I did not try, submitted by member MaxDarkside (and maybe some others) was tying my wrist to the bedframe so that I could not turn over. I think he used something like a necktie as a rope. I think he claimed success, too. Desparate situations call for desperate measures, I guess.

Jay

[JO'M]

I wedge a long narrow pillow unlong my back, sort of 1/2 under and then I use a body pillow in the front which I hug, I also put a small buck wheat pillow in between my knees. It mostly works for me. A friend has good success using a a snoogle.

[tomma]

Tomma, I have to agree with Pugsy. I've tried everything to stay off my back. Pillows, back pack filled with pillows, etc., etc. Problems is, I always woke up on my back on top of whatever it was that I was using and still ended up with fragmented sleep. One thing I did not try, submitted by member MaxDarkside (and maybe some others) was tying my wrist to the bedframe so that I could not turn over. I think he used something like a necktie as a rope. I think he claimed success, too. Desparate situations call for desperate measures, I guess.

Jay

I had the same problem when using things like baseballs, tennis balls etc. There's no way I can sleep on top of what I have now! It's just about physically impossible. I took an old shirt, sewed kind of a pocket to the back of it, and put a pee-wee sized football in it. It sits between my shoulder blades, kind of high up. I can't lie on it even if I try. Now the problem is that I can't sleep soundly on my sides all night.

I think I'll try as Pugsy suggested and see if there's some way I can find a position that's kind of half side, half back, supside!

[cosmo]

One might be able to sleep on their face with these

[zoocrewphoto]

That was one of the first things I tried! Going all the way to 20 helped some, but didn't take care of all of them. Not to mention it's near impossible to keep a mask from blowing off your face at those pressures!

Any chance you have any graphs showing a night like that? Or would you be willing to try a night and post the graph? My titration is 11-17 as I need more pressure when I sleep on my back. My mask is a full face mask, quattro fx, and it stays on at 17. Haven't been higher than that, so I can't tell you how well it does, but I suspect with a good fit, it would still do okay as 20 isn't much higher than 17.

Here's the surprise. When I sleep on my back. my jaw opens more than when I sleep on my side. (I always sleep with my mouth open). When my jaw opens more, AND the pressure goes up, I get flapping cheeks, which I find annoying. My sleepy brain has somehow learned that this is easily fixed by rolling onto my side. Or simply not going there. So, I rarely sleep on my back now, even though I used to sleep on my right side, then my back, left side, and back and forth. I rarely make it to my left side anymore because it requires moving to my back, which my sleepy brain has learned to mostly avoid. My pressure rarely goes above 13 now.

So, if you are willing to work on it with the apap set to help you on your back, you may find that your brain learns to avoid back sleeping on its own with the problems of the tennis balls or other methods. And if you are only on your back for short periods, then even if 20 doesn't quite cover it, you probably won't have very many apneas.

Overall, I think the key is to figure out what bothers you most as both the discomfort of back avoidance and apneas will cause sleep fragmentation. So, whichever causes fewer problems is the best way long term.

[tomma]

Haven't been higher than that, so I can't tell you how well it does, but I suspect with a good fit, it would still do okay as 20 isn't much higher than 17.

Actually, 20 is alot higher than 17! You'd be surprised, doesn't sound like much but trust me, it makes a big difference.

Anyway, my original thought was that by bringing my max up to 20, more than likely the only time it would go that high would be when I'm on my back. Then, it would either fight back the apnea's, or, leak so bad it would wake me up and I would roll over, problem solved either way. As it turns out, not a great idea. What ended up happening was when I went on my back, sure enough the pressure went up, the mask leaked, I rolled over, and the pressure stayed at 20 long enough to be so annoying I had to stop/start the machine so I still ended up with fragmented sleep. While I don't like the ball in the shirt idea at all, so far it's the only thing that's 'worked'. If I'm lucky I'll only have to do it for a short time before it becomes habit and I don't need it any more.

I have an appointment with my sleep doctor Thursday to review the last couple months, the back sleeping issue, and anything else I can think of. Hopefully she'll be of more help this time than she has been in the past.