Numbness in fourth, fifth fingers

[DreamDiver]

Sometimes, sleeping on my back, my pinkies and ring-fingers get numb on both hands. I'll switch to sleeping on my side, or sometimes in the middle of the night find myself with both arms up above my head on the pillows in an unconscious effort to stop the numbness. Anyone else have this happen?

[Marietjie]

Hi there - DreamDiver - The 'numbness' in your fingers sounds like the beginning of carpal tunnel syndrome - look it up on internet.

[Limestone]

If I remember correctly carpal tunnel syndrome is numbness in your thumb,first two fingers and half(one side of your ring finger).I still have the scars as reminders.

[DreamDiver]

Thanks for your replies.
My sister has CTS, so I have some notion about it.
Because my symptoms are the outer digits, I figured it might be something else, perhaps related to OSA, or at least something to do with sleep problems. I'll ask the sleep doc when I go in next week.

Again thanks Marietjie and Limestone for the replies.

[Julie]

It's likely some kind of ulnar nerve problem, the kind that starts in your elbows rather than wrists, and you may want to get an EMG to check it out. Many people with similar problems have their ulnar nerves 'transposed' (surgically slipped from one channel that passes through the lower part of your elbow - where the nerve gets 'trapped' - to another channel right beside it) for relief of symptoms. It's a short barely 'invasive' procedure leaving a 2" scar near the elbow bone closest to your side, and it heals in a couple of weeks.

[ColinP]

I permanently have no feeling at all in the fourth and fifth fingers on my right hand. The radial nerve (the one that goes through your funny bone) is the nerve that is connected to those fingers, and if it is pinched during sleep it will cause those two fingers to go numb.

Mine is caused by the nerve being severed when my elbow went through the car window when I had a head-on collision 5 years ago, and while it showed some signs of coming right for a while, it stopped improving after about two years. Actually it's the outside half of the fourth (ring) finger and the whole of the little finger that are numb, and there are a whole lot of muscles that control the fingers that no longer work either.

Colin

[momadams]

I'd start with a visit to a physical therapist.
The problem could be related to any of several neck/shoulder/elbow issues.
Around here, the PTs are best at pinpointing things.
Shari

[Julie]

But not doctors?

[DreamDiver]

Now that I think about also has started happening when I hold a phone too long with either hand. I have to switch hands! I'll ask my GP to find the right referral. Julie, ColinP and momadams, thanks again for your comments and related experiences. I just wanted to know if it might be OSA-related.

[Guest]

I have that, too, and the doc said it was cubital tunnel. It's nerve compression from laying or leaning on my arm the wrong way and there's not a great way to fix it except for surgery. I've started going to a chiropractor and that seems to be helping, at least I've got a little sensation back.

[momadams]

"But not doctors? "
Hi Julie.
We've got good doctors here, but the one's I've seen just don't have the hands-on experience for finding the source of pain/function problems. They're happy to treat pain or refer to a surgeon.
PTs spend their whole day with soft tissue issues, so in my experience have been the best at figuring exactly what's going on.
Shari

[JayC]

Yes, off and on in life if I napped on my back....

Lately, I have been getting PT on my neck to ward off recurrent neck issues....and I am having lots of tingling in those fingers....not numb, not quite "pins and needles"..... My PT has special interest in necks (lucky for me) and is doing some work that is gentle but resulting in major releases....

Talk to someone who is skilled in necks.... nerves......

All the best....

J

Sometimes, sleeping on my back, my pinkies and ring-fingers get numb on both hands. I'll switch to sleeping on my side, or sometimes in the middle of the night find myself with both arms up above my head on the pillows in an unconscious effort to stop the numbness. Anyone else have this happen?

[mindy]

I had similar experience - I'd wake up with my hand folded under wrist and it would be numb in index finger and 4th + pinky. Then it progressed to difficulty holding phone. I saw doc and was sent to a neurologist who sent me for testing and result was mild carpal tunnel syndrome ... not bad enough for surgery but annoying nonetheless. It was suggested that I wear special wrist splints at night only, thought the doc wasn't too hopeful about that. For about 10 years I've been faithfully wearing my wrist splints at night *every* night. They repeated the test after about 5 years and said that it was much improved and scratched their heads.

It still gets worse now and then because I'm a heavy computer user and play piano but in those cases I rest my hands for a day or two and, as always, I still wear the splints. It's another one of those cases where apparently many people don't keep up with wearing the splints *every* night. I use a headset for the phone.

It kind of reminds me of CPAP - the cheap (relatively) and easy fix requires some effort by me but the result is well worth the little bit of hassle.

Mindy

[DreamDiver]

I had similar experience - I'd wake up with my hand folded under wrist ...
It still gets worse now and then because I'm a heavy computer user and play piano but in those cases I rest my hands for a day or two and, as always, I still wear the splints. It's another one of those cases where apparently many people don't keep up with wearing the splints *every* night. I use a headset for the phone.

I too am a heavy computer user. I consciously spread my hands out so they don't ball up at night. I often put a pillow between my hands, like holding a beach ball so they don't curl over.

[JimW]

The ulnar nerve supplies the sensory nerve for the fourth and fifth fingers, as well as controlling many of the intrinsic muscles (muscles actually in the hand.) The problem with numbness in these two fingers can originate in many places; at the elbow (cubital tunnel syndrome) is probably the most common, and the problem can originate at the wrist (Guyon's canal, I think) or at the neck. Surgery can be very iffy, from what I have seen; if it's the only way to solve a serious nerve problem, then it's likely warranted. The best place for the nerve to run, though, is where it was designed to run.

The thing that's helped me most with the ulnar neuropathy which I have in both arms has been wearing soft arm splints at night. Keeping the elbows bent for any length of time puts additional stress on the nerve; hence, the problem when talking on the telephone (I have a hands-free headset telephone for lengthy conversations.) I also tend to sleep with my elbows bent, if they're not gently restrained. Other aggravating factors are driving, resting your arms on the elbows, writing, and computer use; the latter is especially bad if keying on a traditional keyboard, which forces the forearms into full pronation (palms down, another bad position for this nerve) and ulnar deviation (hands bent at the wrist toward the little finger side.) I've had the great "pleasure" of undergoing both EMG and NCV tests; these tests showed nothing, even though I've had numbness, pain, and fine motor coordination problems.

The splints which I have used at night (haven't needed them for a while) may be found here: http://www.ncmedical.com/item_648.html ; they're also available from other sources. I've also used this http://www.ncmedical.com/item_646.html with folks with ulnar nerve problems when I worked as an outpatient clinic occupational therapist. Gentle pressure over the elbow via neoprene or some similar material can be comforting, but too tight for too long can further irritate.

If you're beginning to have problems of this sort, look into what you need to do to manage it as soon as possible; management may include many of the suggestions already made by others.