Data Reading: Why so much waviness???

[Starlette]

Good morning everyone.

REALLY need help and understanding. Since starting apap (01/09/12), data and leaks are VERY VERY WAVY, WHY??? Has this happened to anyone else??? I am SO FRUSTRATED seeing this every morning!!! EncoreViewer shows the same waviness. This has been going on for too long. It doesn't matter which pressure setting, always wavy. atm I feel I can't get ahold of my auto therapy til this is resolved.

When I got up in the middle of night last night, I checked my mask for mask leaks, none. VERY, VERY FRUSTRATED! Not a happy camper atm.

Starlette

[teknomom]

My leak rate line follows my pressure line, too. In other words, when my pressure goes up the leak rate goes up, but I think that is natural since more air is vented when the pressure goes up. It doesn't mean that you have mask leaks, as I understand it, just that more air comes out the vent at higher pressures. Others can step in if I'm wrong.

[Pugsy]

Intentional vent rate does indeed increase with APAP increase in pressure so your leak line will show more variation with the variable pressures even with zero unintentional leaks.

[Starlette]

So Pugsy, yours shows the same type of waviness too? Also for the AHI graph, why does the line never seem go back to 0 status after an event?

[Pugsy]

Yes, my leak line shows something similar though not quite so pronounced in some of the reports. You are using a full face mask right now and you will see more variations than you might see with your nasal pillow mask. Also part of the reason your leak line looks worse than it really is, is because of the scale that is shown. You are zoomed in so close that everything is going to look like major mountains.

That AHI graph...Mark could answer that question better than me. Mainly it doesn't go back to zero because of the timing of the events and the hourly selection this graph is based on. Again this graph looks worse than it is due to scale. If you could go an hour without any event then it would go back to zero but Mark has this feature on a sliding time frame scale and thus it will stay up there just a little if you have some sort of event to trigger it during that time frame. It won't seem to reset to zero each hour like ResMed machines do due to the way SH adjusts that hourly scale.

[Starlette]

Ok. I'll respond in bit. I have a meeting I have to prepare for.

[Pugsy]

Below is a leak line and pressure report from when I was using APAP.. SH happens to show both leak lines in this report. I always use the Swift FX nasal pillow mask. As you can tell...fairly wavy even when leak is very minimal. Obvious when the pressure increased dramatically that the leak line also responded with a bump upwards in the baseline. Again this looks worse than it really is due to the scale. Even if I had reached the 35 L/min line and stayed there a long time that amount of leak is really very small.

I don't bother with the AHI per hour sliding graph. It might be of value if I had a large cluster to evaluate things on an hourly basis but those are rare for me. I have set SH to not even bother with the AHI per hour graph.

[Starlette]

Thank you Pugsy. As for visual distortion, you are correct *talons retracting* I hadn't seen it like that. EncoreViewer's leak line is shown as little bumps, SH shows them as mountains. I get that now. If you don't mind me asking Pugsy. How do (or did) you have SH for apap reset for AHI?

My mouth would drop in horror every morning with "mountain feedback" making me feel like I'm the "bad patient" that couldn't seem to make those mountains turn into valleys. So in essence what's happening is that my mask is leaking and as a result the pressure increases, which then shows up on the reports, OK. I thought all this time since I couldn't feel my FFM slapping me with mask farts, all was good. I guess not.

Again, thank you.

Starlette

[Pugsy]

I thought all this time since I couldn't feel my FFM slapping me with mask farts, all was good. I guess not.

No, No...Your leak line is fine. It never even makes it to 32 L/min line. Remember this includes the vent rate too, so check your mask's intentional vent rate at your average pressure and you will be real close to have no excess leaks to speak of. If you had a spike to say 60 L/min the scale would be different and these mountains would then look more like mole hills. When using APAP the vent rate and leak will always vary a little due to even the small spikes you see which are test probes. What you are seeing on your reports are very minimal leaks that will vary a bit with pressure changes. Very minimal leaks for a full face mask (which has a higher vent rate anyway) at your varying pressure.

I don't understand this question.

how do (or did) you have SH for apap reset for AHI?

For the hourly AHI graph under pressure? I turned it off so it doesn't show unless I turn it on. Since I don't see the need for that feature graph I just turn it off so that I can get my main graphs all on one screen and don't have to scroll to see what I want.

[Starlette]

Ok, I feel VERY embarrassed. I'm learning. I did a search on the work "test probes". I read your response "Re:Rescan Image" on 01/13/12 @ 8:15am.
After reading that post, I TOTALLY understand the spikes, as you said in your post, test probes. I will never get around from seeing test probes as a part of my data. That will show up on pressure and leak graphs always. I feel like a total idiot, oh well. At least I now understand and through this thread have a better handle (*chuckles* don't hold me to it) on how to view my leaks and pressure.

Last question of the day: How do I get both unintentional and intentional leak lines to show again?

((warm huggs)) Thank you Pugsy *offers 2 Tylenol*

Starlette

Now to get on with my day....

[Pugsy]

How do I get both unintentional and intentional leak lines to show again?

I don't know. Archangle says with the new Beta SleepyHead version that he has both lines show up. I had it in the old version but not now with the new version. I thought it had to do with my now using BiPap but others with APAP and even Pro models are only seeing 1 line now...being total leak. Nothing I do or set in SleepyHead will give me dual lines now. I think Mark is working on something that we use to toggle back and forth if we want to that will work. Right now..at least for me..changing the setting in SleepyHead preferences does nothing and nothing I adjust will give me the dual lines. The one example I showed you with the dual lines was APAP use back in Sept and from using Beta version but I can't get dual lines now for my BiPap. I no longer have the APAP to use to see if it would work again with it.

[Starlette]

Thank you Pugsy

[idamtnboy]

Nothing I do or set in SleepyHead will give me dual lines now. I think Mark is working on something that we use to toggle back and forth if we want to that will work.

Maybe he turned it off for now. He's working on coming up with an algorithm to better define the leak rate above the vent rate. See his thread about asking for math geek help. I imagine the math built into the S9 that calculates the leak rate is pretty complicated, and not being on the inside of the PR development makes it a real challenge to come up with something similar. Starlette's graph showing leak tracking pressure shows what he's up against in coming up with an accurate mask leak line that is flat even when the total leak, including vent, goes up and down with pressure.

[Starlette]

@idamtnboy - I hope in this thread that I didn't come across in the wrong way as going balistic, I was just at my wits end and totally confused that I couldn't understand my own data and getting more frustrated and driven insane as a result. Why such spikes in leaks and pressure??? I thought the following:

* My mask is REALLY leaking badly
* I have my auto programmed wrong
* Something has happened to my new apap
* I'm not doing enough to manage my own therapy
* I've REALLY been having some fantastic dreams in the last two weeks and wasn't made privy about it (Go ahead and laugh, I really thought that)

Now that Pugsy was able to communicate to me the meaning of test probes, I'm at peace now. I can move forward to work more on the quality of my sleep than on the numbers for now. I trust you devs that you'll let us know of better information as it develops. Like I said, I'm ok now.

Starlette

[idamtnboy]

@idamtnboy - I hope in this thread that I didn't come across in the wrong way as going balistic, I was just at my wits end and totally confused that I couldn't understand my own data and getting more frustrated and driven insane as a result. Why such spikes in leaks and pressure???

Nope, no concern at all that you were overreacting. Just wanted to help you understand the challenge in presenting data in the most meaningful way. As Pugsy mentioned the scale of the graph does matter. Sometimes it's good to expand the scale so one can see the little blips, and sometimes it's good to zoom out to get a better perspective of the overall relationship. For example, your carpet may be perfectly clean and healthy, but if you look at it closely with an electron microscope you would probably be horrified at what you would see!