Happy with Zeo - ZQ=81

[VikingGnome]

I'm so glad you folks talked about ZEO. Now I am able to get data about REM and deep sleep and how it is finally returning to normal. My best night last night with ZQ=81 and 2+ hours REM. Graph showing cycles now with my REM not all in a single block at end of my night. I am very happy to know this and my doctors will be very interested to see this. Remember just 4 nights ago my ZQ was 22 with zero REM.

[MaxDarkside]

Excellent! I pray for continued progress and a block of "Deep" eventually showing up in there, maybe near the earlier part. Good for you!

[BasementDwellingGeek]

Recent discussions on sleep architecture, deep sleep and ZQ induced me to cobble together some more code to be able to put many nights of data side by side. Here I am showing the first 7 nights, the most recent 7 nights and the nights with the best and worst ZQ.



The legend is : Black is unknown, Blue is awake, Green is REM, the Pink shades are sleep depth with lighter being light sleep and a darker indicating deep sleep. The total width 10 hours. Apologies to those that don't have wide screen monitors.

I used to think I didn't dream since I rarely remembered doing so. CPAP seemed to improve that and Zeo shows me I'm getting the "proper" percentage. I've got to "learn" to not wake up and spend more time in deep.

bdg

[LittleRedTruck]

Very impressive display of data. However, I'm wondering how this information may have helped to improve your sleep. What have you learned from Zeos, that helps you to awaken feeling fully rested and refreshed. Ive yet to find anyone with all the recent Zeos postings, who can say its improved their life. I hope you are doing well. I would certainly invest in one and remain hopeful it turns out to be the key to unlocking the mysteries of great sleep. Dan

[MaxDarkside]

Ive yet to find anyone with all the recent Zeos postings, who can say its improved their life.

Count me as one. It has helped me improve my life, in part by understanding my sleep, and those factors that influence my sleep that are in my control. I have a metric I record each day, "Goodness" ... how well I feel, in general. With the help of the Zeo, and other learnings, my Goodness has been climbing.

[MaxDarkside]

Here's a chart of my "Goodness", a very subjective feeling about how good I feel each morning, independent of all other things. The blue line is my entry, the red line is a 20 period moving average. It is directly correlated with my Zeo Sleep Score (ZQ), by the way, interestingly enough, as it probably should be, since I'm getting better sleep.

[MaxDarkside]

Here's another metric, a portion of the improvement I attribute to the information the Zeo gives me: Whack-A-Mole time. I play a little PC game I wrote where I have to, as fast as I can, click on a little image that randomly appears 10 times in a window. The average time between successful clicks (hits) is recorded. The lower the number the better. You can see it is going down. I'm making progress...

[Guest]

MaxDarkside
I think that LittleRedTruck (and me) wants to know what changes were made because of Zeo that helped? Using Zeo to show improvement does not show what changes were made that improved your sleep. You might have monitored things like excersize, diet, etc. How did Zeo help, not how did Zeo show improvement?
Ed M

[MaxDarkside]

I think that LittleRedTruck (and me) wants to know what changes were made because of Zeo that helped? Using Zeo to show improvement does not show what changes were made that improved your sleep. You might have monitored things like excersize, diet, etc. How did Zeo help, not how did Zeo show improvement?

That is exactly why I show metrics that are not Zeo sourced. I'm showing independent measures. OK, how did the Zeo help? Mostly by my ability to see my sleep stages, in varying detail. I knew I was screwed up earlier on (I still am a little) and the Zeo confirmed that. Last night the Zeo showed my sleep was screwed up again quite a lot, not sure why, but at least I know! My sleep stages earlier on were pretty hosed up compared to "normal" (as seen in Wikipedia, for example, I searched the web for "normal", some here posted "normal" charts too). I implemented some changes in my diet and meds and watched my Zeo sleep stages become more normal. I would not have known the quantified effect (improvement) of those changes on my sleep without seeing my sleep stages with the Zeo.

Yes, I do try to monitor diet, exercise, etc. with the software I'm using, but it's hard to do even tho recording it is merely a few clicks. It takes more discipline, I find. Like today, I went for a 2 mile walk. Did I record that, well, I forgot (wheels chair around to do a few clicks).

Thanks.

[Jay Aitchsee]

Red and Ed,
In my opinion, Zeo can't by itself improve your sleep. It is simply a tool, a measurement device. You have to make a change to affect your sleep. Zeo helps objectively monitor the effects of that change rather than simply relying on the subjective measure of how you feel.
For example, if I take drug x, what effect does that have on my sleep? What effect does it have on how I feel? Is there a correlation? Personally, I suffer from a lack of deep sleep. I have used Zeo to help rule out drugs that I have taken that did not improve my deep sleep (and daytime fatigue).
I have found that an increase in deep sleep as reported by Zeo will usually be followed by an improvement in daytime fatigue. Most recently, I have found that vitamin D3 supplementation improved the amount of deep sleep as reported by Zeo and at the same time improved how I felt. However, Zeo did not tell me to take vitamin D. It only helped me measure the effects.
The Zeo site does offer a lot of information regarding sleep and sleep hygiene and I'm sure if one followed the advice, one's sleep would improve, but I would not say that was "caused" by Zeo. The Zeo site also offers a good place to keep a diary of your sleep, keep track of changes you have made, and show trends in your sleep, but it doesn't offer any "cures".
Zeo is just a measurement device, same as an oximeter.
Jay

[VikingGnome]

Zeo data helped me confirmed what my Sleep Study already showed--that I had no REM or DEEP sleep. After multiple discussions with both my sleep doc and psych doc, we came to the conclusion that my antidepressant was the cause of continued EDS after 60+ days of CPAP and good therapy numbers. My psych doc really didn't want to do anything because she felt I was very stable. My Sleep doc felt that something had to be done but there was nothing more she could do. So my psych doc says, "I don't recommend this but why don't you try cutting back to 150mg from 225mg each morning." WTF does that mean? "If you try this and get depressed, I'm not liable?" After 10 days on the reduce dosage I got the ZEO. The first night was terrible with ZQ=22 and no REM or deep sleep just like sleep study. The half life of Effexor XR is so long, a dosage reduction doesn't take effect for 10-14 days. The 2nd night with Zeo I should some improvement with a ZQ=49 and some REM sleep. By the 4th night (14 days after dosage reduction), my ZQ=81. For somebody my age, the wheel saw the average ZQ=62.

My psych doc swore that my lack of REM or deep sleep had nothing to do with the meds she prescribed for me. My Sleep doc used to be a psych before she went into sleep medicine and swore it WAS the meds. Now I have the data to prove what was causing my EDS. My daytime sleepiness is finally gone. Today was the very first day I didn't need to take a nap in 8 months. I wasn't yawning and struggling to focus my eyes at the computer. My face didn't hit the keyboard or go into my Cheerios bowl. I've been alert and feeling great all day.

I cannot wait to show both my sleep doc and psych doc graphs from ZEO because I believe it may be helpful as they care for other patients. But especially me. Now I can monitor my sleep status with any changes they make to CPAP or meds and know if it's doing good or making things worse.

[tschultz]

Good news on the higher ZQ. I'm battling very low DEEP sleep too but in my case it is not drug related, Zeo is helping me determine what does affect it though.

I had previously found a web page (unfortunately did not bookmark it) that showed many of the commonly prescribed drugs, such as Effexor, and what stages of sleep they were known to have impacts on (good and bad). It was pretty clear that all the drugs that cause drowsiness have an impact on the sleep stages, many decreasing REM and/or DEEP stages.

Fix one problem and create a few more ...

[BasementDwellingGeek]

I will second what others have said, it is another in tool in the box to help understand where you are currently and if any changes you have made have made a difference. In my case I have not changed anything, so I can't yet say whether a vitamin d supplement, or eliminating alcohol and/or caffeine, or getting more exercise has made a difference, because I have not done any of those things. I now have a bunch of data so that when I do get proactive about improving my life I will able to see which, if any of those things, made a difference.

You don't need to monitor your AHI. You can trust that your therapy is working. I bet most on this forum don't believe that and do monitor themselves.

Before starting CPAP, I had a UPPP surgery in an attempt to cure rather than treat my OSA. I won't say the surgery was of no value but my AHI was just as high after as it was before. I was quite happy to learn that my DME sold me a decent machine and that I could not only get AHI values but actual waveforms. Viewing them I observed what I later learned was Periodic Breathing. After acquiring the Zeo I learned that this modulated waveform is limited to REM sleep. After acquiring a recording Oximeter and correlating that data with the other data I learned that I sometimes desaturate to 84% during Periodic Breathing. This is not reflected in my AHI, or my Zeo data. I am not overly concerned, since it has always been for a short duration. This knowledge has not changed my life other than helping to satisfy my natural curiosity. But now that I am aware of it I can monitor it for change both positive and negative.

I figure I'm going to be a hose head for the rest of my life. Maybe years down the road I will complacent about it. But now, 6 months in, I'm learning about it and how various parts interrelate. I am currently "between jobs". Dorking with the data and learning new things about myself is helping me keep my mind alive.

A neat thing about Zeo is they offer a free trial. If you find that you have good sleep architecture and it offers no value you can return it. You may find something unusual and be curious about it and want to see if you can improve. If you already have good sleep with a full and satisfying life you probably won't get anything out of it.

[jweeks]

I'm so glad you folks talked about ZEO.

Hi,

Dittos on that. My Zeo arrived today, so I am going to give it a try here in about 45 minutes.

-john-