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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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ryro327
 
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On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:55 pm

I just wanted to get people opinion if using Cpap/Bipap can be the cause of my issues.

I've been using the machine for about 3 weeks now but something was not working as my AHI kept rising & rising & rising till it seemed to hit numbers higher than not using the machine at all!!!
I called up my DME & ordered a new mask - the Liberty & bam, right away it was a clear difference. My AHI went from 18.7 to 7.6 the first night using it (this is just this last Friday). It's been on a slow decline ever since & I'm slowly tweaking the setting so I reach a range lower than 5.

Anyway.... Right around this time- really started about Sunday I started having "attacks". It's as if someone stuck me with adrenaline- my heart-rate goes up, I need to go to the bathroom, I get back aches (especially lower back), & headaches. The headaches seem to be increasing in intensity & it's quite bad right now...

Do you guys think there is any correlation to me getting a good night's rest & this? I thought this therapy was going to help me, not do the opposite. I read another thread about someone mentioning that his adrenal glands are going haywire in a sense b/c they "forgot" how to turn off due to untreated OSA. Could this be part of it?

I was also wondering, can the straps on the full face mask be squeezing my head too much & cutting off circulation- is that even possible? (Not to the brain, mind you- just to the skin)...

I hope I can figure this out, the headaches are getting extreme & it seems like my eyes (especially my right) is starting to hurt as well from pressure or something? I just don't know- I'm perplexed by the whole situation.

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby robysue on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:03 pm

Yes, those straps on a FFM's headgear can be tightened down way too much. And straps that are too tight can cause massive headaches. And neck aches. The lower back ache problem could be that you are simply moving around less in your sleep and/or a less than great bed that you are now noticing more because other problems are beginning to resolve themselves.

The problem you report with your eyes may be due to a small leak blowing air at them. Or it could be due to having the mask not quite correctly seated on your face. Or both.

Re-read the fitting guide to your mask very, very carefully. And try loosening those headgear straps. If you change the title of this thread to something like "Need help fitting a Liberty mask" you might get some specific tips about how that mask should be fitted to your head.

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ryro327
 
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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:42 pm

Well I really hope that's what is causing it but at the same time, that sucks!

This mask works great & it's so small but if the straps are giving me these ridiculous headaches then shit...

I can't put it too loose as it doesn't fit properly. The fit is very specific as it uses those nose pillows which are hard to really align

Can there be other reasons?

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby cflame1 on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:45 pm

are you finding that the nasal pillows pop out? You have to be specific as to what isn't working about a mask and then sometimes there are "lab rat" solutions. Sometimes it's a shoelace, sometimes elastic, sometimes tights.

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Pugsy on Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:57 pm

ryro327 wrote:Can there be other reasons?


Of course there can be other reasons but if the headaches are something brand new for you to experience then the straps could be the culprit. Sometimes it doesn't necessarily mean that they are too tight either (though that would be common). Example. I have bad cervical spine arthritis and very limited motion. Any strap around the base of my skull puts tension or torque on the spine and I get pretty much immediate headache.
Muscle tension headaches can be extremely painful and fairly easily triggered in some people by stress, arthritis, etc.
Would it be possible to try a different mask system to see if that lessens the headaches?

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ozij on Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:34 pm

ryro327 wrote:Anyway.... Right around this time- really started about Sunday I started having "attacks". It's as if someone stuck me with adrenaline- my heart-rate goes up, I need to go to the bathroom, I get back aches (especially lower back), & headaches. The headaches seem to be increasing in intensity & it's quite bad right now...


I don't think my friends who responded are necessarily wrong - but please contact a doctor to rule out anything that may not be CPAP related.
Is all of the above (heart-rate, having to go to the bathroom) something happening to you at night, or during the day?

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ryro327
 
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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:46 am

Well luckily I sleep through most nights just fine, the attacks happen during the day. The morning is especially bad as I usually get horrible stomach pains along w/ diarhea..

I adjusted the straps yesterday & it seems to have worked? I don't have a throbbing headache today although now the mask kept leaking too much. The nasal pillows don't pop out but they do leak from the sides (regardless of the size I use).

Today's main issue is the stomach aches- I had to call in late for work as I literally couldn't get out of the bathroom for at least 45min, the pain was intense... to the point that I started sweating & slight shakes. Ugh.. I scheduled another doctors appt. today so I'm also going to leave work early- I don't know what's going on with my body.

I spoke to a doctor who's also a friend about the situation, I mentioned the post I read here about the guy who said his adrenal glands are basically in overdrive. While he had OSA they started making extra catocholmides (spelling?) & other hormones/chemicals to counteract the lack of sleep. Now that he's on Cpap & getting enough sleep- they are still over-reacting but it's causing problems with his body- similar to mine actually. The doctor said it's actually a valid theory & may be true- I was a bit surprised to hear that but then comes the next problem- it's good to know that it's not something else but it may take a few months for the body to balance itself out again. I don't know if I can tolerate these attacks & pain for a couple months (but then again, I don't really have a choice- do I?)

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Drowsy Dancer on Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:56 am

ryro327 wrote:While he had OSA they started making extra catocholmides (spelling?) & other hormones/chemicals to counteract the lack of sleep. Now that he's on Cpap & getting enough sleep- they are still over-reacting but it's causing problems with his body- similar to mine actually. The doctor said it's actually a valid theory & may be true- I was a bit surprised to hear that but then comes the next problem- it's good to know that it's not something else but it may take a few months for the body to balance itself out again.


Catecholamine. I'm not being a schoolmarm here :roll: , I'm just adding the correct spelling to the thread in case someone searches for the term later. The theory is that reducing catecholamine secretion via CPAP is part of the mechanism that decreases blood pressure: http://www.endocrine-abstracts.org/ea/0009/ea0009p1.htm Sadly, it's a painfully small sample size.

DD

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ryro327
 
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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:00 am

No, that's perfectly ok- actually your post is very informative & although it is a very small sample size- it does put a bit more validity to this theory.

I'm glad you linked me to that study, I'd like to show it to my endocronologist as she originally tested me for pheochromocytoma as my symptoms mimic'ed it very closely. When I did the initial blood work-up, my noradrenaline levels were fairly elevated which was followed up by a 24-hr urine test for all those chemicals. the 24-hr urine test came back in the clear...

The problem I saw in this test was that the blood work was done during the period when I experienced the attacks (they last 5-7 days on average, sometimes up to 2 weeks & sometimes only 2 days). But the urine sample was done when I felt better & feel that the spike from the thyroid probably normalized.

It's very hard having a doctor visit & then soon after lab test to allign w/ my attacks so I can never get a valid result. It's usually a false positive, I've had other random tests in the past as I went to the ER a few times when the attacks started b/c I thought I was having heart problems. Those tests also gave some false-positives for example 1 time my D-dimer levels were ~5000 which is extremely high & the doctor got worried & got me Cat scan right away to rule out Pulmonary Embolism which they couldn't find.

Ugh... this whole thing is such a pain (literally). FYI my headaches came back ~a hour or so ago... it's not as bad as yesterday but still. I thought I'd go the day w/o one... o well.

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Pugsy on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:15 am

You mention nasal pillows but your profile shows a FF mask that doesn't have nasal pillows. Which mask are you using?
What pressure is the machine set at? Sounds like aerophagia pain is pretty bad, there are ways to reduce that side effect. I had it happen once when I tried the Hybrid mask. Awful, awful belly pain and sick most of the day. Sometimes the doctor can make some pressure adjustments that will help relieve the aeropahgia pain and sometimes it fades away on its own but don't let it continue to make you miserable.

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:23 am

I just faxed over my doctor the "Obstructive Sleep Apnea Presenting as Pseudopheochromocytoma: A Case Report" I found online.

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/89/5/2033.pdf

It's quite interesting & hope that she can give me more insights at my next check up in 2 weeks. If all these symptoms have been from OSA for the past 15 months then it's a great that I was able to find & hopefully correct this problem early on.


*Pugsy - I forgot to edit my post- the Flexifit was my original mask in which I was encountering the rise in AHI, the Liberty is the new one I got on Friday 3/25. Aerophagia pain? This is the first time I've heard that term- time to research some more! Can you expand on that?
O & my settings were initially set at 16/12 but I've raised them to 17/14 b/c of the AHI numbers- at 17/14, it's showing a slow decrease daily. I'm now at 7.1 AHI, I'm tempted to raise it a bit more but now I'm worried that this is the cause of the stomach pains or at least a factor...

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Pugsy on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:37 am

ryro327 wrote:Today's main issue is the stomach aches- I had to call in late for work as I literally couldn't get out of the bathroom for at least 45min, the pain was intense... to the point that I started sweating & slight shakes


Bloated? Burpy? Gassy? Farty? If this is the type of stomach ache then aerophagia could be the culprit. It is common.
When I had it, I looked pregnant and had pain and nausea all day. Some monster "farts" also...

I could also have misinterpreted your comment about stomach aches.

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Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series BiPAP Auto with Bi-Flex
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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Pugsy on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:48 am

ryro327 wrote:Flexifit was my original mask in which I was encountering the rise in AHI, the Liberty is the new one I got on Friday 3/25.


Did the belly pain get worse with this mask?

ryro327 wrote:my settings were initially set at 16/12 but I've raised them to 17/14 b/c of the AHI numbers- at 17/14, it's showing a slow decrease daily. I'm now at 7.1 AHI, I'm tempted to raise it a bit more but now I'm worried that this is the cause of the stomach pains or at least a factor...


You have the software. What do the daily details show? Could leak account for perhaps decreased effectiveness of therapy and thus the higher than what you want, AHI? If minimal leak to blame the AHI on then maybe a change in pressure as you have tried but perhaps other bipap users could offer a different range that would work and lessen the stomach ache. I wouldn't do another pressure increase in the manner that you have though, it might just make the belly pain worse.

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Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series BiPAP Auto with Bi-Flex
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ryro327
 
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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby ryro327 on Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:56 am

The software shows a continual slight decrease in AHI w/ the current settings. 7.9 - 7.6 - 7.1

There are slight leaks here & there but don't seem to effect the numbers too much- they do seem to correlate w/ the Vibratory snore though, which makes some sense.

In terms of the stomach pain- it's how you describe it: I get extreme pain & it seems to only ease when I've finally excreted every single little bit of anything from my body which is why I usually have to stay in the bathroom for so long. Along w/ the pain I do get gas & the gas isn't "normal" or as it used to be. These are what I guess you referred to as "monster farts". Some are them are the most putrid things I've ever smelled... & finally yes- they seem to have come on w/ this mask, I wasn't having the issue w/ the previous one but then my AHI was high. It's like a trade-off for one or the other.

I think I'll try lowering the pressure tonight back to 16/12 & turn off the -bi-flex feature. I'll see how the AHI is then, if it stays around the current range then I'll keep it at that.

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Re: On BiPap ~3wks, now experiencing head, stomach, back aches

Postby Pugsy on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:41 pm

ryro327 wrote:yes- they seem to have come on w/ this mask, I wasn't having the issue w/ the previous one but then my AHI was high. It's like a trade-off for one or the other.


The Liberty is very similar to the Hybrid I tried with minor structural differences. Both use the nasal pillow and over the mouth interchange. I was just trying the Hybrid in case I had a bad cold because everyone here made it sound like I would die a horrible death if I couldn't use my normal Swift LT (nasal pillow mask I was using at the time). So I tried it and awful aerophagia occurred. I never had it with any of the nasal pillow only masks I have used. Something about the Hybrid use caused copious amounts of air to get to my stomach. I know others use this type of mask and don't have excess air issues. But I did and it was enough for me to never want to use it again. No more full face masks for me. That was the only one that had any chance of working with my cervical spine issues.

Anyway, see how you do with the pressure reduced and see how the AHI responds. At least you know the likely culprit. Pressure increases do seem to increase aerophagia in some people and with some it is severe.

Always something... but we have to be comfortable during the day and minor gas isn't so bad but when it is so painful that we get cold sweats, nausea and can't function, then it needs to be addressed.

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Machine: PR System One REMStar 60 Series BiPAP Auto with Bi-Flex
Mask: AirFit™ P10 For Her Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: PR System One 60 Series Heated Tube Humidifier with Heated Tube
Additional Comments: S9 Adapt SV being tried now...not available as menu choice

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