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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
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Mightily_Oats
 
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ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Mightily_Oats on Sun Mar 06, 2011 1:26 am

Didn't see a thread about this in a quick search, my apologies if it's already been posted about.

When I got my ResMed S9 machine within the last year the salesman gushed about the heated hose "climate tube" feature. It seemed like a weird feature to me because I've never had a problem it would solve, but I guess there's a phenomenon called "rainout" that this feature addresses?

Anyways, soon after I got my machine I discovered that a hole in the tubing was what was causing an annoying whistling sound and so I switched to the unheated tube from my old machine. (I was on the road alot and forgot to call the retailer and ask for a replacement, by now it's probably too late unfortunately, have to wait for whenever my insurance will replace it.)

I've recently discovered that the heated tube feature does something else: it appears to be compensating for a design flaw in the machine. If the machine is filled with water to the proper indicated mark in its water reservoir, (which I hadn't been doing before) in the course of normal operation on a level surface it expels water into the tube, which I have to manually drain because I don't have the heated tube to evaporate it.

tl;dr summary: With an unheated tube the S9 blows water into the tube and it doesn't evaporate very quickly.

I mostly just wanted to get this note up and within Google's view for others considering the S9 or who have the same problem. But I'll ask cpaptalk: anyone had a similar problem? Seems like it might be fixed with a simple right-angle adapter though I haven't tried that yet. Also, any tricks for fixing a pinhole in tubing?

Including these words solely because I think that someone Googling for this kind of problem would search with them (and because honestly it seems a bit sketchy that they get to charge extra - $50 USD total per the invoice - for a heated tube when it probably wouldn't be necessary, for me at least, without the design flaw): fraud scam review bad engineering ClimateLine™ H5i

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avi123
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby avi123 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:25 am

1) I am using the slim line hose only
2) I don't need to use the climate control hose b/c my room temp is set at 75 F
3)I could use an S8 old hose which has larger dia than the slim line but the S9 does not have an input for it on the screen. Only Slimline or Climate.
4) During the several times when I did not lock the humidifier cover (pushed it all the way down), I have noticed that the turbulence that was created in the chamber could push some water into the hose

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Machine: S9 AutoSet™ CPAP Machine
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Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
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Last edited by avi123 on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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scrapper
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby scrapper on Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:30 am

The slimline hoses do have a history of breaking near the attachment ends..........stop at your local hardware store and pick up the repair tape for air hoses--it's a stretchy tape. The Menard's brand is called "Wrap & Seal". It works like a charm and eliminates the problem without spending a bunch to replace the hose.

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ozij
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby ozij on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:52 am

I've been using a non-ResMed heated hose to control rainout for many years. Having the air nice and warm is also great - I can't sleep when the tip of my nose freezed.

My heated hose is the normal width hose that I used on the S8, and now use on the S9 - I have no idea why Avi1123 can't connect a normal hose to his S9.

I've rarely filled the humidifier to maximum, and have never run into a problem of the pressure blowing water into the hose.

My pressure is 9.2 at the most, that may different for people who need and use higher pressure.

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Mightily_Oats
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Mightily_Oats on Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:45 pm

Thanks for the responses!

@avi123 - My machine actually refuses to turn on if the humidifier cover isn't latched properly, so I don't think it's that problem. The problem only happens if I fill the water up to the exact top of the indicated water level in the reservoir, and only then for a fairly brief period. But I can hear the water slurping and bubbling and being blown around so I know that's what is happening.

I tried the heated ResMed-manufactured tube last night and I noticed that it seems to have a little plastic lip that probably also compensates for the problem... and I'm noticing that the ResMed tube is smaller in radius by several millimeters than the unheated tube, so maybe this is the "slimline" tubing, perhaps another compensating factor in the design? Does anyone know what the purpose of having a narrower tube would be, otherwise? I have a very high pressure setting, near the maximum legally allowed in the U.S. I think, and the narrower tube seems to make it harder to breathe smoothly and to cause more whistling sounds.

@scrapper - Thanks for the "Wrap & Seal" suggestion - I'll give it a try!

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Bright Choice
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Bright Choice on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:16 pm

Is it "rainout" that you are experiencing with the slimline tube? I did have rainout with slimline when I wasn't paying attention to room temp and settings. I am using Climateline now with no problems - love it actually.

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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Slartybartfast on Sun Mar 06, 2011 4:44 pm

Wrap and seal, electrical tape, or even the stretchy Saran wrap that's used for wrapping food would work to seal that leak.

Re: the humidifier blowing water into your hose, that only happens with mine if I overfill the reservoir. However I never run at the pressure you're talking about, so the airflow is not so high. Actually, I just pour water into the reservoir and don't take note of the water level, just fill it somewhere 3/4 full or thereabouts. Sometimes I even do that in the dark by sound, so I don't pay much attention to how full it is.

FWIW, my S9 Autoset will run just fine with the humidifier lid unlatched.

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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby mstevens on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:04 pm

avi123 wrote:1)I could use an S8 old hose which has larger dia than the slim line but the S9 does not have an input for it on the screen. Only Slimline or Climate.


Odd. Mine has the option for Slimline or regular hose if the Climate hose is not attached.

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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Lizistired on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:08 pm

Teflon Tape (plumbing kind) works great for leaks too.
Conforms to the grooves and sticks to itself (unless you're trying to use it on plumbing :) )

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ozij
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby ozij on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:11 pm

I guess slimline hoses were created to make hoses lighter.

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Mightily_Oats
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Mightily_Oats on Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:57 pm

Well, I just checked to be sure and if I try to start the machine with the humidifier lid unlatched I get an error message that says "Attention: H5i lid open, please close flip lid and press any key." Maybe I lucked out and got an especially sensitive sensor, or maybe because my pressure setting is high it's easier for it to tell that the lid's open... it runs for a fraction of a second before it stops.

Do other machines take a slimline hose or is it just the S9?

@Bright Choice - I don't think this is "rainout" because in the other threads where I've seen that mentioned people talk about waking up in the middle of the night with their mask full of water; this only happens for a brief period at the beginning of the night under a specific set of conditions: the water reservoir has to be filled up to the maximum, which I only do rarely when I have the humidity level cranked up because I've got a cold or something, which is why it took me a while to discover the problem. And it sounds like my high pressure setting might have something to do with it too. (Which I think is 14cm, if I'm recalling correctly, and my doctor told me that the maximum he was allowed to prescribe is 15cm - that's here in the U.S. Oddly I can't seem to find the pressure setting anywhere in the S9's information screen or menu system - anyone know how to do that offhand?)

It appears to me that it could be fixed with a simple right-angle adapter coupler to get the mouth of the tube up higher than the level of the water... or maybe I can rig up a little Y-shaped holder out of a coat hanger, to try to get an upward slope in the tubing near where it connects to the machine, so that the water flows back into the reservoir instead of down the tubing. When I go looking for some air hose or plumbing tape I'll see if they have anything useful-looking at the hardware store.

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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby billbolton on Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:15 am

Mightily_Oats wrote:And it sounds like my high pressure setting might have something to do with it too. (Which I think is 14cm

I run my S9 Autoset with a 14cm to 16cm APAP range, so it starts out at 14cm. and I fill the humidifier right up to the line every second or third night. I have never had any issue with the S9 blowing water into the slimline tubing.

You need to explain specifically and exactly what you are doing :idea:

Cheers,

Bill

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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby mstevens on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:14 am

I just had a similar thing to what I understand the OP to be describing happen last night.

Newly-filled water tub, starting pressure of 10 cm. FG started up and I immediately heard water gurgling in the tubing. I pulled up the tube so the water would drain back in and it happened a couple more times then quit.

This used to happen with the H2i on my Autoset Spirit all the time. Factors involved seemed to include how full the tub was (even though it was never filled beyond the max line) and water temperature (warmer meant this was more likely to happen. I'm pretty sure the position of the planets or the gain in the NASDAQ had some effect... or maybe there was a lot of randomness.

I suspect part of what's going on for the OP is that water that isn't in the very bottom of the tub (e.g., is sitting on some of the higher clear plastic components) is blown into the tube and that possibly with the high pressures and thus flow rates reported some might be blown off the surface of the main volume of water in the tub. My experience is that even a few drops is quite noisy and noticeable in a full-diameter tube. It may be much more so in a slimline.

I've managed to start my S9 several times with the humidifier door unlatched. I've never had any sort of error message.

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Mask: Swift™ FX Nasal Pillow CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: S9™ Series H5i™ Heated Humidifier with Climate Control
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Uncle_Bob on Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:26 am

Mightily_Oats wrote:Also, any tricks for fixing a pinhole in tubing?


Google - F4 Tape Self-fusing Silicone Tape Black

I got mine from Amazon. Fixes holes and reinforces the ends where the tubing meets the cuff.


Image

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Mightily_Oats
 
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Re: ResMed S9 heated hose shenanigans

Postby Mightily_Oats on Tue Mar 08, 2011 12:10 am

billbolton wrote:I have never had any issue with the S9 blowing water into the slimline tubing.

You need to explain specifically and exactly what you are doing


I think I have; respectfully, I think you may have missed some of the details in reading the thread. This issue does not involve the slimline tubing. The $50 ResMed-manufactured heated slimline tube that came with the device appears to have several elements - the heating function, a plastic lip, and the narrower diameter - that seem to compensate for design problems in the machine that are evident with a more standard, less expensive hose.

@mstevens - This doesn't involve water trapped in the upper parts of the reservoir.

@Uncle_Bob - Thanks for the recommendation! That's exactly where the hole in the heated tubing is, right where the tubing meets the cuff.

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