Train yourself to keep your mouth closed?

[DocWeezy]

Hi all....has anyone here ever been able to train themselves to sleep with their mouth closed?

I'm wearing "the nose" (Swift FX) and now in the throes of experimenting with tape, chinstrap, and bite guard from Walmart to see what works best. The tape works fine, but my skin is pretty sensitive so I haven't found the right tape yet; the chinstrap is a no go because I haven't enough of a chin for it to hold shut. Will try the biteguard tonight. Might make a couple of other chinstraps of different designs and maybe make a papcap-style one to try...don't know yet.

Last night I didn't use anything at all for my mouth, and my leaks weren't too bad. I naturally keep my tongue up against my upper teeth so my airway is blocked that way. My leaks were median 0, 95th percentile 4.8, and maximum 19.2. Still under the "line" and I only had leaks for a total of about 45 minutes all night. My AHI was low (.2) and my 95% pressure was the new normal (my 95% pressure has consistently been lower with the nose than the Hybrid). I'm pretty sure I slept well last night because I'm feeling very good today--one of the first times!

In case anyone remembers, I'm the one who couldn't sleep enough during the titration study to even get a starting number because I was having full blown panic attacks for the first time ever. I knew that I had some pretty severe claustrophobia issues, but had no idea they were THAT severe. And severe they were; I needed Lorazapam to even begin to desensitize. I remember sitting in my office, staring at my then Quattro mask, and telling myself that I COULD put it on and turn on the machine and I would still be able to breathe. My heart would race and my stomach did flip flops. I had to tell myself that all the time for weeks, both during the day for practice and at night.

I had been a mouth breather all my life and the thought of being "forced" to breathe through my nose and having my mouth taped was the stuff of true nightmares so I never even considered a nasal mask. As it was, even with my beloved Hybrid, several times a night for weeks I would wake up screaming and ripping my mask off (hubby sure loved those episodes.....not!) Discovering the Hybrid kept me going (love that mask!), but me and "Hy" started having some arguments over leaks lately and he was no longer working well (even a brand new mask and headgear didn't help). Sigh. I was sooooooo sad and a little panicked because of the claustrophobia thing. I hated the Quattro because it hurt and the air tickled my nose something fierce so I didn't even want to explore other FF masks.

Anyway, fast forward to now, about three and a half months after that first awful night.....last week I got the Swift as part of a "Frankenstein" mask that hubby was going to concoct for me (using the Oracle as the base). So I had to try it on and play with it. Gawd those pillows felt so good....so light....delicate.....little.... So I turned on the machine to see if I could breathe. WOWEEE ZOWEEE! There is a HUGE difference between trying to pull air into and through too-small nose/nasal passages (which docs say I have) and having air PUSHED INTO same small nose. I could breathe! I tried it during a nap. I slept well! I tried it that night with a chinstrap--I slept all night! I rolled around and it didn't shift or wake me up. That was it. I'm now over my awful cold (went back to good ole Hy for several nights and managed to plug most leaks), and back to figuring out the finer details of using nose pillows and keeping my mouth closed.

So yes, it is still frozen over down there because I've become a dedicated nose breather who can even tape my mouth at night! Who'da thunk it? Even with some remaining congestion, I like my Swift better than my Hybrid, and I've had no claustrophobia attacks with it, even with the tape on (I'd stopped having regular attacks with HY about a month ago).

All you folks on this board have had a great deal to do with my sticking to it, trying new things (like modifying my Hybrid), and forging ahead. Thanks for all the fabulous information and encouragement! Now if I could only learn to keep my mouth closed (at night!), I could almost forget I now sleep with a hose attached.

Weezy

[Pugsy]

I had some opening of the mouth issues when I first started therapy. I taped or used polygrip for about 2 months. Got lazy and started "forgetting". Watched my reports and the evidence of opening mouth leaks dwindled away. It is very rare that I seem to open my mouth now. Leaks are minimal, mouth is not dry, etc.

So yes, it is possible to learn to keep the mouth shut. Though to be fair, I have no nasal problems that sometimes causes people to mouth breathe.

[ResmedUser]

Dumbest idea I ever heard.

Just go get a good full face mask and learn to live with it. Geeeeeeez.

Mikey

[DocWeezy]

You know Mikey....the willingness to find solutions and be creative in finding those solutions is a sign of intelligence. I think that high level of intelligence is shown by the people here because of their willingness to help and their creativity in coming up with solutions to make life more comfortable and CPAP easier to live with. Personally, I sleep better when I'm comfortable, and better sleep is what this is all about.

I wonder what it is about you that makes you want to suffer so? What is it that makes you think that CPAP must be painful and awful every night? Or does it just show your lack of creativity and willingness to find a better solution?

Weezy

[deerslayer]

well Doc, thought i had that mouth leak solved for a couple years. recently began to notice very dry mouth (mouth leak). can be very bad for dental issues not to mention loss of therapy. had to go back to the chinstrap and humidifier back to 1 instead of passover...
Problem solved for the time being. minimal leaks, lower AHI, & higher 90% effective pressure...What works for some will not work for all*
Good Luck !

[sister]

No, what works for some does not work for all,I wish.
I have used chinstraps,polident,mouthguards,and tape for almost a year now and still cannot stop all the air from coming out my mouth!
I try so very hard to train my mouth to stay shut by blocking my throat with my tongue,but it does not work.
And I cannot use A full face mask,I have severe allergies and they take the skin off my face even when I try to use the Remzzz's liners.
It is not always so easy for some people,I truly wish it was.

[ResmedUser]

You know Mikey....the willingness to find solutions and be creative in finding those solutions is a sign of intelligence. I think that high level of intelligence is shown by the people here because of their willingness to help and their creativity in coming up with solutions to make life more comfortable and CPAP easier to live with. Personally, I sleep better when I'm comfortable, and better sleep is what this is all about.

I wonder what it is about you that makes you want to suffer so? What is it that makes you think that CPAP must be painful and awful every night? Or does it just show your lack of creativity and willingness to find a better solution?

Weezy

Chin straps dont work. "Training yourself" to hold your mouth shut in your sleep is stupid and wont work. Your muscles relax too much in your sleep and you are unconscious while asleep.

Get a good FFM and get real. Its what I did. Its what most serious OSA sufferers do when they have bad mouth leak or mouth breathing.

Deal with it and man up.

Mikey

[Janknitz]

I thought I was a dedicated mouth breather, but to my great surprise I found that with proper pressure I do not open my mouth all night.

A few tricks helped me in the beginning:
1. I sleep on my side and hug a pillow to support my bad left shoulder. I propped the pillow under my chin for extra support (no longer needed).

2. I put some chap stick on my lips to make them tacky--it's just a gentle reminder to keep my lips sealed.

3. Tongue position is key. Keeping your tongue on the roof of your mouth seals the mouth off if your lips do relax and part.

[DocWeezy]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies--I really appreciate it. I figure this is quite a journey and I've still a ways to go, but determined to find the best and most comfortable solution for me. It really helps knowing what has and hasn't worked for others.

Thanks for the ideas about the poligrip and chapstick. Think I'll try the chapstick first.

I'm hoping that I'll be another one like Pugsy and Janknitz....it sure doesn't hurt to try!

[Pugsy]

Thanks for the ideas about the poligrip and chapstick. Think I'll try the chapstick first.

I was never told about chapstick..... That poligrip is nasty stuff and messy besides. Mostly I just used painters tape but I did try the poligrip a few nights. Also tried various short of home make chin straps but they weren't very successful.

I had my own reasons for not wanting to go the FF mask route and I figured that my reasons were good enough for me. I was the only one that mattered. I hope you can get where you want to go also.

[Hueffenhardt]

I keep my mouth shut when I sleep, unconscious and all. So, it is not a stupid idea. People don't have to just accept that they are mouth breathers. I don't know how to train a person to do what I do, but I bet at least some people can do it. If I can sleep with my mouth shut, surely at least some other people can learn how to do it to.

[SleepingUgly]

Where exactly do you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth (e.g., where relative to your front teeth)?

[DocWeezy]

Where exactly do you put your tongue on the roof of your mouth (e.g., where relative to your front teeth)?

My tongue is always positioned touching my front teeth and curving to the roof of my mouth, both day and night. My teeth are slightly parted and the very tip of my tongue is between them. I can't hold my tongue flat at all--not enough space (I have a very small mouth/jaw--physically, anyway--and had to have 8 teeth removed before braces could be used).

Weezy

[JayC]

I relate to Weezy here.....not enough room for my tongue to lay flat AND inside my mouth.....

The lack of room was *one* reason my upper front teeth were pushed out....so I learned early as part of getting braces NOT to flatten my tongue! My tongue tip sits behind but not touching my front teeth. Tip sits barely touching the ridge just behind the teeth. Little did I know that this discipline would make future CPAP treatment easier!!!

I hated waking up with a sore throat as a kid from mouth breathing....well I hate that as an adult too...especially as a CPAP using adult! So I found ways, including a pillow or stuffed animal or blanket or even my fist (like "The Thinker" statue) under my chin to hold my mouth closed. Most nights, I don't need those last things.....but if I wake up to sore throat or higher leaks, I will go to sleep with some kind of support under my chin. I don't usually have to be diligent about that for long....

Day and night, I breathe through my nose as a natural first option.....both in and out. And if I am too clogged to breath that way, I do what I can to return to that state.......neti pot, bath and aroma therapy....

I am really thankful I learned to nose breath BEFORE I also had to learn to mask up! Even still, I believe for many, training is possibe!!!

J

[Hawthorne]

I was mouth breathing at night only and taped for a couple of years. I wear a nasal pillow mask. Then I had a dental accident that meant I could not tape for a while (upper front teeth involved). I have never been able to use a full face mask so I assumed I would just have to mouth breath until the dental issue was solved.

When I was taping, I always put front of my tongue on the roof of my mouth just above the front teeth when I went to sleep. I even began to automatically do this all day when my mouth was closed (still do).

I was surprised and pleased to discover that I did this with no tape the night of the dental accident - and no dry mouth! It is now 5 months since the dental accident and things are still fine. It appears I trained myself to not mouth breath!