Do you do this?

[ameriken]

I don't know if this is related to the sleep apnea, and I don't know if I've recently starting doing this or if I've done it for a long time and am now just becoming aware of it, but I very often find myself subconsioucly holding my breath when I am awake. Even I as type this I have caught myself holding my breath 2 or 3 times.

Do you do this or is anyone aware of why I might be doing it?

[nanwilson]

Yep........I think most of us hold our breath when we do stuff, even to roll over in bed, I know I do.

[Bons]

And probably the more you think about it the more you will catch yourself doing it. Most likely, you've been doing it all your life without noticing it. It is pretty common to hold your breath when exerting yourself or other times. Which is why physical therapists and coaches often have to remind people to breathe.

I often take long pauses between breaths, and always have. It's one of the reasons I don't do well with my ASV, which wants me breathing in a predictable pattern.

[newname]

I do this frequently. I thought I had "awake apnea"

[rested gal]

That's perfectly normal to do at times while awake and going about your day.

viewtopic.php?p=15061#p15061
christinequilts wrote:
THink about when you exercise or concentrate hard- if your not aware you can hold your breath which is essentionally central apnea. Turning over in your sleep is basically like an exercise- you go from doing nothing to moving. If you were to have your breathing monitored while you are awake you would see a lot of 'central' events.

[ameriken]

Interesting replies, all of them. I guess I just became more aware of it after I got diagnosed with OSA/CSA.

[ozze_dollar]

yes I do it too. My sleep instructor says I have probably had sleep apnia all my life but it has just got worse lately.

[kempo]

Yes, when I am concentrating on something. If I have something on my mind while trying to go to sleep I will have a cluster of CAs on my events chart. Same thing when I am waking in the morning.

[Vader]

Yep, I do it. Been doing it as long as I can remember...

[fadedgirl]

I do it, too. I thought maybe its a stress reaction, like folks do this instead of biting their nails, or clenching their jaw, or something.

[NightMonkey]

For those of you who describe this as normal, do you have evidence to back that up?

I will admit up front to having done only a little research and reading on the subject. However, my impression is it may be common, especially in sleep apnea patients, but it is not normal and not healthy.

The failure to breathe rhythmically (when awake) is due to poor jaw structure resulting in a compromised airway. This condition causes physical and mental stress.

People with good jaw structure and healthy airways do breathe rhythmically throughout the day (and night).

Part of my information comes from reading and watching videos about Oral Systemic Balance therapy, http://www.centerforsoundsleep.com/blog/?page_id=628 . Here you can see videos of patients who are not breathing rhythmically and are under tremendous stress. In the videos a corrective appliance is placed in the mouth and immediately the patient begins to breathe rhythmically and feels "a type of peace and relaxation" that they have not experienced before.

The argument then follows that many, maybe all, of us with OSA not only need therapy at night but need it 24 hours per day.

I can say for my own case, when I am feeling lethargic and tense during the day, a period of ten minutes of exercise where I am forced to breathe rhythmically does wonders for my energy level and removes the tension.

So back to my original question, for those of you who describe these gaps in breathing as normal, do you have evidence to back that up?

[ameriken]

That looks like a fascinating read NightMonkey, I'm going to spend some more time reading it watching the vids later.

I will say that once in a while, when I am very relaxed, I will hear myself snoring very slightly while awake. That is one of the reasons I posed this question in the forum. If we can have sleep apnea events during the night, who's to say we couldn't have some of the same events during the day that are affecting us? If we stop breathing at night and the drop in oxygen gives us headaches and makes us more sleepy, lose concentration, etc, then wouldn't not breathing during the day do the same thing?

I caught one statement that I found interesting about seeking out stress to jumpstart their breathing:

During the initial consultation in the above video, this patient mentions that she feels “tense for no reason” and that she is “comfortable with stress” and if stress is not present she “will seek it out”. Dr. Robson’s premise is that, for many patients, seeking out stress is an important part of their survival mechanism that is necessary to keep their airway open and not choking every time they swallow.

[NightMonkey]

That looks like a fascinating read NightMonkey, I'm going to spend some more time reading it watching the vids later.

I hope others will join in a good discussion about the videos and this topic.

My motivation is partially self interest. I intend in the next couple of years to find a top notch orthodontist with heavy experience in obstructive sleep apnea patients. I want to consult with two or three very good ones who use appliances or braces to stimulate jaw growth.

Some possibilities are the older type of palate expanders, Damon system braces, Oral Systemic Balance (OSB), and DNA appliances. Of these, the DNA appliance is of the most interest at the moment. They claim to stimulate jaw growth without any pressure on the teeth. So over two or three years it might cure me! The DNA appliance also has a tongue retainer wire which might immediately be a good adjunct to CPAP treatment or might even treat me completely without the need for CPAP.

The nearest DNA provider is a six-hour roundtrip for me but there are more orthodontists regularly adding DNA to their practice. As soon as there is one in my area I am going for a consultation. I need to do more research on the other orthodontic options and have other consultations also.

Contrary to what was once thought, bone (jaw) growth in you older dudes (over 40 ) is possible and has been demonstrated in a few patients in their seventies.

May I suggest you edit the title of your original post in this thread to, "Do We Need Treatment During Our Waking Hours?"

Hopefully this would entice some more knowledgeable people to contribute.

Thanks for your interest and original question and please post what you find.

[fadedgirl]

[quote="NightMonkey"
The failure to breathe rhythmically (when awake) is due to poor jaw structure resulting in a compromised airway.
/quote]


I don't know about everybody else but I was responding to the original post as stated...that we find ourselves subconsciously "holding our breath" throughout the day. Just like folks find themselves doing other habits subconsciously, like bouncing their knee or tapping their pencil.

This is considerably different from having a biological inability to breathe normally. What you are describing is not 'holding one's breath'.

[NightMonkey]

I don't know about everybody else but I was responding to the original post as stated...that we find ourselves subconsciously "holding our breath" throughout the day. Just like folks find themselves doing other habits subconsciously, like bouncing their knee or tapping their pencil.

This is considerably different from having a biological inability to breathe normally. What you are describing is not 'holding one's breath'.

Yes! It is not "holding one's breath" and I don't believe that is what ameriken was describing in his OP.

Of course it is the case that humans often "hold their breath" during the day. The prime example of this is what fitness trainers deal with over and over everyday. They have to train their students not to hold their breath when performing exercise movements. A newbie on a weight bench will hold their breath under the strain of bench pressing a weight. This is reflexive and the student has to be trained to breathe on each repetition.

But ameriken in the OP is asking something that I think is very different. He is talking about holding his breath when he is sitting and typing and under no physical strain, in fact, hardly under any strain if he has the correct chair and posture. Notice he says he "finds himself subconsciously" holding his breath. This is not the way the novice weight lifter would describe his action. The weight lifter would say to the trainer, "Yes, I did hold my breath while straining to lift the weight." The weight lifter would not describe it as a subconscious activity - it is a conscious activity that can easily be trained away.

ameriken's problem and my problem and many others with OSA have a physical inability to breathe normally that is widely mistaken as a bad habit that can be controlled. I don't believe it can be controlled consistently, even with long term intensive breathing training. The airway has to be corrected in some manner.

The OSB approach is to wear an oral appliance during the day, in fact, it is worn 24 hours per day. Other approaches would be to widen the jaw and consequently increase the size of the airway.

Watch some of the patients' responses and body language in the OSB videos. They are absolutely amazing. This breathing problem is a new medical discovery and great advancements will be made in the coming years.

I'm gonna tell you how it's gonna be
You're gonna give your breath to me
You're going to wear an appliance night and day
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
faded girl no more faded

With apologies to Buddy Holly and Mick Jagger