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General Discussion on any topic relating to CPAP and/or Sleep Apnea.
SleepyJoeMS
 
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Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:43 pm

I had raised this question within a different post, but I think it's a topic all its own. Any feedback please?

I don't think I mouth-breath. But I do notice the occasional build up of air in my mouth (when awake of course) and find I simply have to open my mouth and exhale it, then just press on breathing through my nose (also, that I have to open my mouth to exhale seems to be evidence that I'm not a mouth breather too). Any thoughts about this? Does it suggest something more that I should be concerned about? I suppose it happens when for some reason I'm not exhaling fully through my nose, for whatever reason. I'm now trying to train myself to do something I read around here somewhere: to park the back of my tongue against the back of my throat to keep the air from filling my mouth. It's generally not a problem to exhale through my mouth occasionally, but thought I'd ask.

Thanks for any thoughts on the matter. Joe :D

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Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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turbosnore
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby turbosnore on Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:24 pm

I had something like that. Sometimes I a bubble entered my mouth through my throat while awake.
I also used to wake up with a very sore throat, sometimes after just a couple of hours.
There was a leak that a FFM did cure.

There is a possibility that every now and then you mouth-leak during the night.
You should check the leak from your machine. If the leak is negligible, I think you can forget about it.

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De-bugging is for sissies, real men do de-monstrations.

SleepyJoeMS
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:44 pm

I don't have any issues with sore throat. I notice mostly by my cheeks filling out a bit with air. But I resonate with the "bubble" concept. Also it doesn't seem to be waking me up, though I think I do wake up for other reasons. So, I only notice when I'm still in a wakeful state, just breathing normally through my nose, I think and perhaps exhaling shallowly (even with BiFlex set at 1 - it seems more comfortable than 3). The leak rate does seem to be up a bit over the last couple of weeks. I attribute that to more eye leaks I've been experiencing for some reason, and maybe switching between the Activa and Comfort Gel more frequently?

Thanks, turbosnore, for the ideas.

Joe

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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Goofproof
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby Goofproof on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:23 am

SleepyJoeMS wrote:I don't have any issues with sore throat. I notice mostly by my cheeks filling out a bit with air. But I resonate with the "bubble" concept. Also it doesn't seem to be waking me up, though I think I do wake up for other reasons. So, I only notice when I'm still in a wakeful state, just breathing normally through my nose, I think and perhaps exhaling shallowly (even with BiFlex set at 1 - it seems more comfortable than 3). The leak rate does seem to be up a bit over the last couple of weeks. I attribute that to more eye leaks I've been experiencing for some reason, and maybe switching between the Activa and Comfort Gel more frequently?

Thanks, turbosnore, for the ideas.

Joe


You need the software and reader to see what's going on with your treatment, mouthleaking will be worse when in deep sleep. No way for you to tell without the software, well worth the trouble to get. Jim

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Maturity is the ability to stick with a job until it's finished; the ability to do a job without being supervised; the ability to carry money without spending it; and the ability to bear an injustice without wanting to get even. I still am working on it.

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Snoredog
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby Snoredog on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:34 am

Therapy pressure is kept from leaking from the mouth accomplished by the seal made between the soft palate and the base of the tongue. Once xPAP pressure is applied that seal can be maintained as long as the mandible doesn't drop.

Once the seal has broken air can escape into the mouth where the lips will be unable to hold it back. You can test this out
while awake,

1. Put on your mask, turn on the machine with mouth closed,
2. Place your tongue into the hard palate,
3. slowly allow the mandible to drop, your lips will part and no air should escape,
continue to slowly drop your mandible with mouth open until air escapes,
I can open my mouth about 3/4 to 1" before that seal is lost.

Note: If you had your tonsils removed as a kid they may have trimmed your palate and you will have difficulty maintaining that seal.
If you think you are mouth breathing you can try taping for a night or use a chin strap like the one SleepGuy offers called the Pap-Cap,
his is unique remains vertical so it doesn't pull the mandible back only prevents it from dropping. It can be adjusted where
there is no elastic pressure on the mandible yet it remains static to prevent the mandible from dropping.
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

SleepyJoeMS
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:44 am

Thanks for more input.

I do want to get the software and reader, but I'm a Mac guy and it seems I need a PC, so I need to find something cheap even if only to load this software.

What is the Mandible and how do I make it drop? Once I know that I'll try the test. Also still have my tonsils.

Thanks again.

Joe

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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turbosnore
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby turbosnore on Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:35 am

My tonsils are gone as well as the other thing (don't know its name in english).
[edit]
Aha, they are both probably tonsils: tonsilla pharyngea and tonsilla palatina.

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De-bugging is for sissies, real men do de-monstrations.

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Snoredog
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby Snoredog on Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:55 am

SleepyJoeMS wrote:Thanks for more input.

I do want to get the software and reader, but I'm a Mac guy and it seems I need a PC, so I need to find something cheap even if only to load this software.

What is the Mandible and how do I make it drop? Once I know that I'll try the test. Also still have my tonsils.

Thanks again.

Joe


You can get a cheap netbook, they even sell them at Target for under $300, but newegg has a bunch
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory ... e=Netbooks

Check your local PC dealer dumpster I bet it is full of PC's, or you can load Virtualbox on your mac with XP and/or bootcamp, but why open your mac up to all those viruses and bugs :mrgreen:
someday science will catch up to what I'm saying...

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Sleepy Boy
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby Sleepy Boy on Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:54 am

Hi Joe: I use Polident Denture strips to help with the air leaks. Just wet one and stick it on your bottom lip, press lips together, and your sealed. Somebody on here told me about them, and they really work good. Wet it in the morning with warm water and it comes right off. :D

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Sleepy Boy

SleepyJoeMS
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:15 am

Thanks Sleepy Boy. One problem though, is that eventually I feel like I either have to give a big exhale through my nose to relieve the built up air, or, it's easier just to open my mouth and exhale that collection, then continue on as normal. The latter seems to take less effort and it seems since the air has collected in my mouth cavity, it tends to stay there until I do so.

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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echo
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby echo on Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:50 pm

Have you noticed that your jaw has dropped when you have the 'chipmunk cheeks' effect? (Jaw=madible: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandible )

If your jaw is dropping then a chinstrap can help stabilize it, preventing the 'blowfish effect'. YMMV
GK 420E, 10.5cm w/ HH
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!
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Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) and Recovering with T3
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SleepyJoeMS
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:28 pm

Hmmm Echo. Good question. I know my mouth/lips stay closed. But I'll have to pay attention to my jaw specifically, Either way. If it stays up, will that help to block the back flow of air into the mouth, routing it via nostrils out the mask? Is it possible there are times when I exhale more shallowly thereby encouraging some of the outflow to enter my mouth vs. going against the pressure out the mask exhaust :?: :?:

Oh and thanks for the definition of mandible that Snoredog left me in the lurch for :?: :mrgreen: Of course I could have looked it up myself :oops: , but chose to take the route my kids always do... just ask someone else. :lol:

Thanks. Joe

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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echo
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby echo on Thu Nov 20, 2008 6:33 pm

SleepyJoeMS wrote:Hmmm Echo. Good question. I know my mouth/lips stay closed. But I'll have to pay attention to my jaw specifically, Either way. If it stays up, will that help to block the back flow of air into the mouth, routing it via nostrils out the mask? Is it possible there are times when I exhale more shallowly thereby encouraging some of the outflow to enter my mouth vs. going against the pressure out the mask exhaust :?: :?:

For the first question - I find that for *me*, just the fact that my jaw drops allows my tongue to dislodge just enough that my mouth starts filling with air. It has to do with something about having the back of the tongue glued to the roof of your mouth. I can't explain it any better than that. You have to try it to see what snoredog means.

As for the 2nd Q, I have no idea?? I don't think that has anything to do with it.

And as for your last comment, don't worry I'm lazy too that's why I'm not going to try to explain the jaw dropping thing any further ya just gotta try it :P :lol:
GK 420E, 10.5cm w/ HH
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!
---
Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) and Recovering with T3
Circadian Sleep Disorders Network

SleepyJoeMS
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby SleepyJoeMS on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:04 pm

Now that I know what the Mandible is (thanks Echo, Snoredog-NOT) :D... I think I have experienced this. I will do Snoredog's test though. If true, then to keep this from happening you pretty much have to keep the the teeth of the upper jaw (upper mandible :?: -nope I'm sure this has it's own anatomically correct name too :) ) in contact with the teeth of the lower mandible?, and conciously keep the tongue up on the palet. I think I try to do that while I'm still awake, but once asleep and relaxed have no control over it. I guess it is not a problem except if it waking me, which I don't think it is... it's just an "awake" observation right now.

Thanks all :!:

Joe

P.S. Actually, I'm trying now without air pressure to just keep my tongue up against the palet while I part my teeth and can't really do it, the tongue comes off pretty quickly it seems. Even when I force my tongue with much effort back up to the palet with mandible parted, it does seem the back of the tongue has broken it's seal. (it's ok, I was alone while attempting this experiment, no one was watching my facial contortions...)

_________________
Mask: Mirage Activa™ Nasal CPAP Mask with Headgear
Humidifier: M Series Heated Humidifier
Software: M Series Smartcard Module
Additional Comments: Use Auto BiPap Mode. EPAP 6, IPAP 12. Occassionally use Respironics Comfort Gel Nasal Mask

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echo
 
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Re: Air Escaping From Mouth?

Postby echo on Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:13 pm

SleepyJoeMS wrote:P.S. Actually, I'm trying now without air pressure to just keep my tongue up against the palet while I part my teeth and can't really do it, the tongue comes off pretty quickly it seems. Even when I force my tongue with much effort back up to the palet with mandible parted, it does seem the back of the tongue has broken it's seal. (it's ok, I was alone while attempting this experiment, no one was watching my facial contortions...)

There's your proof! Keep your jaw shut and no air will leak out. (i can't say anything about the contortions :lol: )
GK 420E, 10.5cm w/ HH
Activa nasal mask + mouth taping w/ 3M micropore tape + Pap-cap + PADACHEEK + Pur-sleep
Hosehead since 31 July 2007, yippie!
---
Stop the Thyroid Madness (STTM) and Recovering with T3
Circadian Sleep Disorders Network

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