The search for a FFM (again)

[snuginarug]

When I started my cpap therapy just over a year ago, I didn't know jack about anything. In a dizzy whirlwind, I tried many masks, without really knowing exactly what was what. We finally settled on a small Resmed softgel nasal. It works fine. Except when my nose is stopped up. Then I can sleep without a mask, or just not sleep at all. Lately I have been choosing to not sleep at all, as sleeping without a mask leaves me feeling even crappier than I felt when I went to sleep. However, not sleeping at all is not an ideal situation. So now, as a wiser, more saavy cpap user, I am going to try to find a FFM. The Ultra Mirage Quattro was infuriating because the medium was too big and the small too small. Such a good mask! *sigh* So now after researching a bit, I am going to try exploring the F&P masks. As I understand it, they have three models: 431, 432 and the Forma. Anyone with experience with these masks... your input would be greatly valued. I'd especially like to hear from folks who have tried/used both Quattro and F&P, for, most importantly, the sizing differences.

In addition, any tips for trying masks would be greatly appreciated. My DME has a bed I can lay down on, and I bring my own pillows for fittings.

Thank you, fellow hoseheads!

[LSAT]

When I started my cpap therapy just over a year ago, I didn't know jack about anything. In a dizzy whirlwind, I tried many masks, without really knowing exactly what was what. We finally settled on a small Resmed softgel nasal. It works fine. Except when my nose is stopped up. Then I can sleep without a mask, or just not sleep at all. Lately I have been choosing to not sleep at all, as sleeping without a mask leaves me feeling even crappier than I felt when I went to sleep. However, not sleeping at all is not an ideal situation. So now, as a wiser, more saavy cpap user, I am going to try to find a FFM. The Ultra Mirage Quattro was infuriating because the medium was too big and the small too small. Such a good mask! *sigh* So now after researching a bit, I am going to try exploring the F&P masks. As I understand it, they have three models: 431, 432 and the Forma. Anyone with experience with these masks... your input would be greatly valued. I'd especially like to hear from folks who have tried/used both Quattro and F&P, for, most importantly, the sizing differences.

In addition, any tips for trying masks would be greatly appreciated. My DME has a bed I can lay down on, and I bring my own pillows for fittings.

Thank you, fellow hoseheads!

Your DME should give you a 30 day free trial. Try them all at home for several days.

[cflame1]

If you're trying the F&P... the difference between the 431 and 432 is a grey foam liner... that's in the 432. So I'd try the 432. That way if the difference is slight you can either take off or put on the liner... which is switching it from the 431 to the 432

[chunkyfrog]

We (DH and I) tried a ff 431, with all 3 sizes.
Small was too wide for me (huge jowl leakage), but DH has been using the medium as his primary, make that only, mask.
I am getting ready for night 3 with my brand new ff 432, size small. So far, so good.
it feels narrower than the 431, even a bit snug.
I need a little more time to work out controlling leakage.
1st night 12+; second night over 40--my pressure and AHI are both lower--both nights.
this is the first full face mask ever to not make my nose even a little bit sore.
I hope they didn't redesign the thing to preclude elbow replacement--DH has had trouble; and the part is the same on mine.

[snuginarug]

Your DME should give you a 30 day free trial. Try them all at home for several days.

When I went through my first mask search, I took home 3 different masks, then was told No more. I am going to explain my needs to my DME (to try all F&P masks, in different sizes if necessary) and if they tell me they cannot do this, I will find a new DME. I don't want to do that because I like my current DME. But I MUST find FFM as not sleeping is not a solution that will work in the long run.

If you're trying the F&P... the difference between the 431 and 432 is a grey foam liner... that's in the 432. So I'd try the 432. That way if the difference is slight you can either take off or put on the liner... which is switching it from the 431 to the 432

Thanks for the tip!

Thanks to you also, chunkyfrog, for your detailed input. Have either of you used/tried an Ultra MIrage Quattro? The medium of that fit the width of my face perfectly, but was too long. The small was too small in every dimension.

Urgh, I am not looking forward to going through this whole process again. Trying masks is sort of hellish.

I am not due for another mask for about 2 months, so I am in research phase only. I want to discuss this thoroughly with my DME before we even start trying masks, so that they can have the proper F&P measuring tool and hopefully have one or two example masks to try on in the office.

[DoriC]

http://www.cpaplibrary.com/

Have you looked into some mask trials here? An easy way to try different masks. My husband uses the Resmed UltraMirage Full Face which is the older version of the Quattro which seems to work for him (most of the time).

[Bons]

I like the 431 better than the 432, as the 432 fit way too snug. The mask itself is slightly different: the exhaust holes are aligned differently, and the inner ridge of the 432 is a bit deeper in order to accomodate the foam liner. I found that using the 432 without the foam tended to drive that ridge into my cheeks when I slept on my side and mashed my face into the pillow.

[rested gal]

snug, I know this mask looks crazy, but for me it's probably the most comfortable FF mask I've tried, and I've tried just about all of them at one time or another.

The Respironics FitLife Total face mask.
https://www.cpap.com/productpage/respir ... dgear.html

My biggest concerns when I first saw a picture of that mask were:

1. Will there be a feeling of air blowing in my eyes if I open them?
Surprisingly, there was no sensation of air blowing inside the mask at all.

2. Will it be difficult to get a seal around sooooo much perimeter?
That would vary depending on the person's face, but I had no trouble getting a good seal all the way 'round.

3. Will I be able to sleep on my side with that much mask along the side of my face?
Yes, I could. The pillow I used was very smushy, so that helped. I could bunch the pillow where I needed support, and make a hollow where I needed it for the mask.

If you don't find a more conventional FF mask to suit you, you might want to try the FitLife Total. I was surprised that it did so well for me.

[snuginarug]

http://www.cpaplibrary.com/

Have you looked into some mask trials here? An easy way to try different masks. My husband uses the Resmed UltraMirage Full Face which is the older version of the Quattro which seems to work for him (most of the time).

Thank you! I followed the link and filled out a form... hopefully I will hear back soon.

I like the 431 better than the 432, as the 432 fit way too snug. The mask itself is slightly different: the exhaust holes are aligned differently, and the inner ridge of the 432 is a bit deeper in order to accomodate the foam liner. I found that using the 432 without the foam tended to drive that ridge into my cheeks when I slept on my side and mashed my face into the pillow.

That's good to know, about the 431 vs 432. That will help me with sizing.

snug, I know this mask looks crazy,

Hehe, yes it does! But hey, if it works... Someone suggested I look into that back when I was first trying masks, and I thought they were kidding. But no, now that I have been on cpap for a year, I can def see all the advantages of this type of mask. My sleep doc just showed one to me last week. I will be looking into that next, if my F&P explorations yield no results.

[Janknitz]

Never tried the UM but the Quattro sizes run slightly different, or so I've heard. There's also the Quattro fx but I could NOT stop the leaks on that one.

I always go back to the Quattro but it leaks around the chin on my back. (I don't sleep on my back, ever). Be sure to read my fitting tips in Taming the Mirage Quattro.

[Mary Z]

I also use the FitLife Total Face Mask and find it to be the most comfortable mask ever. In 3 1/2 years I've tried lots of masks, but since getting the TTM I am sold. It does have a large footprint, but leaves no marks on my face, leak is usually 0, and is unusually comfortable.
Good luck in your search.

[Madalot]

Hey Snug,

Just noticed this post as I haven't been online much in the last day or so....

I tried the 432 and the foam insert was so snug (no pun intended) on my face that it gave me a blister! I think that when ordering a 432, you have to get the silicone a size larger to accommodate the foam.

I use the 431. I can get by on the medium silicone, but prefer the large for myself. I've been loyal to it now for almost 2 years.

My husband is using it as well.

[snuginarug]

Never tried the UM but the Quattro sizes run slightly different, or so I've heard. There's also the Quattro fx but I could NOT stop the leaks on that one.

I always go back to the Quattro but it leaks around the chin on my back. (I don't sleep on my back, ever). Be sure to read my fitting tips in Taming the Mirage Quattro.

Thanks, Janknitz. I regard you as the authority on Quattros. I carefully read your fitting tips. I am going to try the FX, and will employ your method. I am hoping the FX sizes are a bit different, as I fell right between sizes with the UM Quattro.

I am trying to do this systematically so I am doing F&Ps first. Mainly because there are only 6 permutations: 431 sm, med and large, 432 sm, med and large. I decided to the the Forma out of the equation, unless I hear someone rave about it.

I also use the FitLife Total Face Mask and find it to be the most comfortable mask ever.

I am becoming more and more interested in this mask. How does it work out with insurance? Is it covered by most insurance? (I have Medicare.) Are DMEs reluctant to sell these?

I tried the 432 and the foam insert was so snug (no pun intended) on my face that it gave me a blister! I think that when ordering a 432, you have to get the silicone a size larger to accommodate the foam.

Thank you for the information... every little bit I can know going in will make things so much easier.

[purple]

You might start with the Forma, as it is the latest of this line of masks. I use the Forma, I used the other F&431, 432 before. I feel the Forma is slightly better for me. The downside; The location of the vent holes with any of these masks causes air to be reflected into my eyes, and my eyes are constantly red, which is similar to the F&P 431, 432.

The mask comes in parts. The hard shell part and the cushion. If I ask for a mask of Medium size I get cushions for both medium and large, and I can use both. Which is like an extra mask for free. Anyway, you do not need the mask so much in different sizes, you need the mask and the different size cushions.

For any of these masks use a bit of mole skin across the bridge of my nose. As I am male, my forehead slopes slightly back. I use a small bit of paper towel to take up the space, and to position the mask to not pinch the bridge of my nose.

I wear my face creases in the morning proudly and I am glad to to tell others about how wonderful it is to have a sleep apnea machine.

[snuginarug]

I wear my face creases in the morning proudly and I am glad to to tell others about how wonderful it is to have a sleep apnea machine.

Upon your advice, I will try the Forma too.

The mask library Dori C told me about delivered the Quattro FX in medium a couple of days ago. Grr. It is so maddening dealing with a mask that doesn't fit. This mask was too big. When I first put it on, I felt the flexible silicone "skirt" fill with air and create a lovely soft cushion. I could feel exactly how it is described as "floating" on your face. HOWEVER, it leaked very badly because it was too big. I tightened it, to see if I could get it to work. I know that goes against the rule of thumb, but it was clearly, obviously too big and no amount of loosening would make it fit better. I ended up tightening it ridiculously, and just trying it for one night to see if it could possibly work. Well, it was pretty awful. I got it to stop leaking, but it was tightened down so hard it hurt when I woke up the next morning. My face continued to hurt all day and most of the next day. BUT it convinced me to continue the hunt for a FFM. I hate nasal masks. I have been using one for a year now. I still hate it. Every night I dread going to bed, and when I put on my mask I cringe, feel anxiety, sometimes even hyperventilate. This ill-fitting uncomfortable mask was a huge relief because I put it on and felt no panic at all. I felt quite peaceful, in fact. So I MUST find a FFM. I'll keep you guys updated.