Why Are People So Stubborn?

WearyOne · Post by **WearyOne** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:29 pm

I started talking about this on another thread, but after last night, I needed to start a new thread. I know this has been covered multiple times, but---

My husband I haven't slept in the same room for over 10 years, due to his snoring, my RLS and constant movement, and up until I started cpap, my snoring. He's been told by the owner of a medical supply store, various friends, and me that he needs to get a sleep study.

Last night, I stood in his doorway and watched him sleep. He'd fallen asleep, as usual, in front of the TV, computer and lights all still on. He was on his back, mouth hanging open.

Has anybody here ever watched someone sleeping who you know has untreated OSA? It's horrible. I almost got short of breath just watching him. He'd have a few loud snores, and then---mouth was open, stomach twitching, shaking, and rising big time trying to breathe, but no breathing. Then the big gasp and loud snoring, and huge deep breaths, only to start it all over again. He's a poster child for OSA.

I don't care how many people tell him this, he still really doesn't think he has it--at least that's what he told me this morning when I mentioned me standing in the doorway for 20 minutes watching him. I've showed him the videos, told him what the health consequences can be. I guess it's, "Oh, it'll never happen to me," stupid thinking. He actually said, "Well, I guess then it's good when I'm snoring because that means I'm breathing." ARGHH! He's pretty smart as far as the "book-learning," but where's the common sense?

I know you can't make someone do something they refuse to do, but I just needed to talk about this with people I knew would understand. It's hard enough listening to him coughing and gagging when it gets so bad it wakes him up all the way, but watching it was even worse.

Thanks for "listening."

Pam

Sleepy Dog Lover · Post by **Sleepy Dog Lover** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:35 pm

Try taking a videotape of him sleeping. Sometimes, seeing it for yourself can shock people into action. No pushing, no arguing about it, just tell him that you want to make sure that he knows what it is like watching him sleep. And make sure all your insurance policies are upgraded.

dieselgal · Post by **dieselgal** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 3:48 pm

I was thinking the same thing. I will probably embarrass him too but if he see's with his own eyes maybe he will take it seriously!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:13 pm

Be sure you post the video to You Tube and email it to all his friends or else he probably WON'T BE EMBARRASSED.

GOOD LUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Babs

TossinNTurnin · Post by **TossinNTurnin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:25 pm

I'll be interested in the responses because I think I'm gonna be dealing with this with my husband.

There was a time he denied that his snoring was that bad. He'd get mad at me when I would describe how excessive it was. Got downright nasty.

Then one night, as he was sleeping and SNORING in the recliner in front of the TV, I recorded him with my camera. I uploaded the video to the computer which was in the room next door.

Before I went up to bed, I turned on the video (with sound) and went up to bed) and left it running in a loop.

Even though this guy could sleep through a parade... it eventually woke HIM up ... and he had to get off his ass and turn it off if he wanted it to stop.

He hasn't denied how bad his snoring is since then...

But he DOES deny the seriousness of it (and the probable OSA) and doesn't think he could "deal" with all the CPAP equipment.

I'm also thinking of writing a note to his doctor telling him I'm very concerned about his having OSA and hope he'll bring up the subject and push the issue because he won't listen to me.

I'm hoping that as I improve too, he might think it's not a bad idea.

But I'll be interested to see how other's have "convinced" their partners.

Goofproof · Post by **Goofproof** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:32 pm

Sleepy Dog Lover wrote:Try taking a videotape of him sleeping. Sometimes, seeing it for yourself can shock people into action. No pushing, no arguing about it, just tell him that you want to make sure that he knows what it is like watching him sleep. And make sure all your insurance policies are upgraded.

Then upload it to YouTube, arange for him and all his friends and co-workers to view it. It should be good either for him to change his thinking or get a devorce. Maybe that's not a good idea after all, but it would be funny. Jim

goose · Post by **goose** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:55 pm

Videotape would be my suggestion as well....

YouTube could be a "threat".....

I'm dealing with a wife who is an RN and should know better, but is in total denial!!!! I'm working on getting a logging oximeter so we can see if her O2 sats drop during the night. That might be enough to convince her and most DME's will loan you one for a night or two -- especially if the doc prescribes it!!!!

Gotta be devious......

Good luck -- take care
cheers
goose

TossinNTurnin · Post by **TossinNTurnin** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:00 pm

Well, I certainly hope people aren't serious about your putting a video of him up on youtube.... it's funny to joke about, but that would be quite perfidious IMO.

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:23 pm

Pam........

There is an answer to your question....but, it isn't pretty.

All of the wonderful innovations that surround us.....are a result of the "Scientific Method"..........which relies on data gathering, experimentation, intellectual honesty, and plain 'ole horse sense.

Some people live their lives using the "Scientific Method".....and others live in a fantasy world....in which nothing adds up.....and contradictions are comfortable.

I've been on the hose for over a year now.......and I've learned a bunch. The lady in my life has watched me struggle with the learning process.

I suspected that she had a problem. I could hear her snore....not loudly.....but I could tell she probably wasn't getting the O2 she needed at night.

Even though she is very smart......and has great confidence in my abilities to size something up.....and separate the bull from the truth......I realized that she wouldn't give CPAP a good try until she was convinced she had a problem.

Since the whole reason for CPAP is to help us maintain an O2 blood saturation level of 93% or higher all night....every night.....a recording pulse oximeter with reporting software is the only way to know whether or not someone has a problem......and whether or not CPAP is helping.

So I bought one.

My honey wore it for a month.....and gathered data......and what she saw shocked her. Much of the time, her O2 blood saturation was below the 93% minimum safe level. Wearing the oximeter wasn't near like wearing a mask.....her finger was mashed a little every morning....but she was fascinated by what she saw every time we printed out a report.

At the end of the month, she began using my spare machine....and one of my spare masks. She was convinced that she had a problem.....she could see the numbers. Most importantly, her sub-conscious mind was convinced.

She's doing much better now.....she feels better during the day......her blood pressure is lower.......and she is more productive (she doesn't have a brain fog).

Every morning, I print out an Encore Pro report for each of us.....and I'm doing everything I can to help her have a better AHI score than mine. We work together....as a team......learning, tweaking, improving, innovating.

Hopefully, you and your husband can do the same.

Gerald

goose · Post by **goose** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:43 pm

Gerald, that's exactly what I have in mind.
She has to see she has a problem before she'll attempt to address it, so the oximeter will be step one!!! Good post!!!!

cheers
goose

WearyOne · Post by **WearyOne** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:48 pm

Thanks for all the support.

I have recorded his snoring before (he wasn't happy about it). Don't have a camcorder, though the thought to video him did cross my mind this morning.

I've love to have a recording oxymeter. I've looked at it in the past for myself, but there's that thing of having to pay for it. I have no way of paying for it (believe me), he won't pay for it, and, to top it all off, he doesn't have medical insurance! (We won't talk about the $800 hi-def TV he bought himself for Christmas, instead of starting on health insurance, or maybe even buying an apap. Yes, I've explained to him how that one works.)

Sidebar: He's 54 and doesn't have medical insurance! (Another stupid decision.) I'm self-employed and pay an insane amount for my insurance. He has several part-time jobs that don't offer insurance. He could probably get his insurance cheaper than mine because I have more health problems. (Well, at least I have more problems NOW; probably won't if he keeps up his current stubborn attitude.) Two years ago, he ran up a $14,000 hospital bill when he was out of town at his mother's house and had to go to the emergency room and be admitted for four or five days. This that was an inflammed pancreas or something. Was taken to court because he wasn't paying the bill; he's paying on it now. Even after that, he won't check into health insurance.

Back to the topic at hand. Umm, might talk to a few friends and see if they have a camcorder I could borrow. I don't know that he'd even watch it, or knowing him, he'd think it was funny to watch himself, but it's sure worth a shot to try.

I told him tonight that sticking his head in the ground like an ostrich, trying to pretend a problem doesn't exist, will not make it go away.

Oh, I just thought of something as I was typing this. I think I'm going to contact his friend that's connected to the medical supply company here in town and talk to him. If he's high up in the company, or actually owns it, maybe he could lend us, or rent us cheap, a recording oxymeter, or an apap. I'm going to call him tomorrow.

Thanks all!

Pam

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CPAPopedia Keywords Contained In This Post (Click For Definition): video, APAP

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:05 pm

Sounds to me like the best thing for you to do is spend your time and efforts on getting everything in order....so that when he checks out of the picture.....you'll land on both feet.

Position yourself so that he can't drag you down financially.......make sure he's on his own.....you don't want "splatter" on yourself as all of his bad decisions come home to roost.

If you'll think about it, many people make bad decisions.....and they want to make others responsible for the results of those bad decisions.

Cover yourself. This is going to get ugly.

Gerald

WearyOne · Post by **WearyOne** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:20 pm

Gerald wrote:Sounds to me like the best thing for you to do is spend your time and efforts on getting everything in order....so that when he checks out of the picture.....you'll land on both feet.

Position yourself so that he can't drag you down financially.......make sure he's on his own.....you don't want "splatter" on yourself as all of his bad decisions come home to roost.

If you'll think about it, many people make bad decisions.....and they want to make others responsible for the results of those bad decisions.

Cover yourself. This is going to get ugly.

Gerald

Are you sure you're not my girlfriend in disguise?!? Or possibly her husband? Some of the above is almost exactly the same wording they have used to try to talk to me!

She has been telling me this for years, not just regarding the health and health insurance issues, but other things as well that are best suited for another type of forum. Anyway, at her and her husband's constant urging, I have made some small steps in that direction, but not many

I guess sometimes after you try and try and try, and still the person won't grow up and take responsibly for themselves, you have to start protecting yourself (and children, if that be the case---our son is in his first year of college).

Gerald, you are definitely right, no doubt about it. I'm going to keep plugging away at him, but I guess the smart thing would be to also continue to plan financially in case he continues not to listen to me or his friends or his family.

Pam

Gerald · Post by **Gerald** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:18 am

Pam......

I've come to the conclusion that we can be attracted to someone genetically (chemistry)....but that someone can be self-destructive.....or just not have brains enough to come in out of the rain.

What I'm talkiing about is "tough love".......I suspect Dr. Phil's whole career depends on people like your husband.

Don't be an enabler. Don't paddle out into the deep water with someone who refuses to learn how to swim. A person like that will drown you.

Gerald

Marie · Post by **Marie** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:18 am

I live alone, husband deceased, and my sister and I went to CO to put my home there on the market.
One day I almost ran into a mountain in the car, when I fell asleep at the wheel.
I knew I was tired all the time, but still I didn't think I had sleep apnea.
I told my sister that I would see my MD, but I guess I was putting if off, and she called my Dr. and told them, and they called me one day and said the Dr. wanted to see me, didn't know why.
That was how she got me to the Dr.
But, probably your husband wouldn't go into the Dr.'s office.

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