Hybrid, Liberty and Zzz-Mask Comparison Post

[Perchancetodream]

For the last year and five months, I have been trying to get to sleep with a mask on my face. With very severe OSA, I know that my life depends on my willingness to find a way to make this therapy work. I use whatever comfort items I can, including the PurSleep Aromatics, the snuggle straps and even a CPAP pillow. Most of all I try not to think that I will need all of this paraphernalia for the rest of my life, but tell myself that it is just for tonight. After trying three different types of full face masks I am hoping that my thoughts may help others trying to decide which mask to try. (Although I am not reviewing it, I have also worn the Mirage Ultra Full Face.)

Perhaps it was all the years that I suffered migraine headaches that makes me so uncomfortable with any type of mask that requires a forehead brace. But, being an occasional mouth breather I did need a full face mask.

So, a little over a year ago I started CPAP therapy with a Hybrid mask. I modified it by cutting off the bottom flap as suggested by Rooster on this forum. I was perfectly content with it even though the nasal pillows were sometimes irritating, especially when I had a cold. The mask itself is very sturdy and durable, as is the second generation headgear. The cushions and pillows were supplied in all three sizes which made it easy to find the right combination of the two.

About 7 months into my therapy, my husband switched his DME to Liberty and I followed suit, as dealing with the local DME (actually they are an hour's drive away) proved to be increasingly difficult. Liberty didn't carry the Hybrid mask, but they did have the Mirage Liberty which I decided to try. The Liberty was much more comfortable than the Hybrid, and did not have a chin flap. The nasal pillows, although not adjustable as on the Hybrid, were so soft and form fitting that they were hardly noticeable. The Liberty came in with a single oral cushion and three sizes of nasal pillows. It has a smaller footprint than the Hybrid and the manner that the cushion joins the mask is much easier to manipulate than the Hybrid.

The hose release on the Liberty makes getting up in the middle of the night more convenient and the release clips on the headgear are good. But it is a flimsy piece of equipment overall. The release elbow was the first thing to break, making it impossible to keep the hose connected to the mask. The second break was on the small bar of the mask that is used to attach the upper headgear strap. It is a good design in many areas, but the finished product is not durable.

So two months ago I ordered the Zzz Mask from CPAP.com and love it. I woke up yesterday morning and realized that I had no pain from a strap too tight or a nasal cushion too large, I was completely comfortable and wanted to remain in bed, asleep. That is the first time I have felt that way since I started all of this on September 1, 2007.

The Zzz-Mask, by PMI Probotics is a full face mask that does not require a forehead bar or strap. It is a small, lightweight and very comfortable cushion with a plastic support frame. The cushion is soft and pliable and easy on my skin. The headgear is sturdy but I wish it had a release for the top straps. They must be taken off in order to wash the mask, which means finding the perfect setting has to be done all over again. So I have taken to using the CPAP II wipes which are very effective, on a daily basis and washing the mask in warm water and gentle soap once a week.

I use a BiPAP machine with a maximum inhale pressure of 21, but since it is on automatic, it doesn't often get that high, lately it has been 12 and 15 (with exhale pressure 2 to 4 points less). The Zzz-Mask handles the higher pressures better than the Hybrid did and much better than the Liberty. Using the tights leg fix that I learned here, the Hybrid is just as good at the higher pressures, but the Zzz-Mask doesn't need an external fix.

So, in my small entirely unscientific poll, the Zzz-Mask wins hands down, the Hybrid does very well and the Liberty just doesn't quite make it. But everyone will have reactions based on their own needs. The thing about masks is that comfort and fit are all highly personal. Fortunately we currently have some choices available to us.

[Ms Piggy]

Hi, just want to say thanks for that, very useful. I haven't seen the ZZZ but will look it up. I should change to full face due to mouth burbles,
and a fear of needed hospital visit/stay with a nasal - bet you can't tape your mouth in there!

[fortomorrow]

I had a similar experience. I hated the Liberty, tolerated the Hybrid with the chin flap cut off, and I *LOVE* the Zzz mask. It is hands down the most comfortable mask I've tried.

[AuntieNae]

Interesting .. because I started "the other way" with the zzzProBasic mask .. and am now a happy camper with my Mirage Liberty .. but, my only complaint with the Pro Basic probably was how it rested on my face and I have since learned about SIZE .. I am thinking they gave me one size too small for my face ..

[KengEsq]

I agree. I've tied the Hybrid and Liberty as well as just about every full-face mask available and have found the Zzz-Mask the best by far. It does leak a little at high pressures (my APAP sometimes pumps out up to 16 cm H2O) but even with the leaks at the higher pressures my Zzz provides better nightly numbers and far more comfort (no sores at all on my nose or elsewhere).
I've also been in contact with the Zzz manufacturer recently (Jim Westfall, VP of Operations of Pinnacle Medsource - a Division of ProBasics) regarding possible improvements to the straps and the method used to fasten the top straps to the mask. Jim tells me improvements are in the works. He sent me a photo of a new design for attaching the top straps so the straps do not have to be re-adjusted. Too bad I have no idea how to insert the photo into this message.

[spottydogspot]

I am so excited to read all of your remarks!! I just started cpap last week, and I am miserable. They gave me the Mirage Quattro, and while the first two nights it did well, it has gone downhill since. I have been researching the zzz mask and the liberty and hybrid online. I may be able to get my insurance to pay for a liberty, but I will be on my own with the other two. After reading your opinions I think that I will definetely give the zz mask a try.

My nose itches after I put on the mask, and now all day. I asked the pharmacist and he said is there latex in the mask? Which I know there is not. Do you guys have any advice on this? It has been waking me up at night. Whenever I wake up I am in a panic to get the mask off, and i HATE feeling like that. Last night I woke up several times and had to take it off, so it isn't doing much good. I hope there is light at the end of the tunnel.


thanks again for your comparisons, I am going to order the zz mask right now!

[Perchancetodream]

Funny you should mention a nose itch. Last night my nose itched as well, and I had to scratch it. No latex or anything so esoteric, but simply a stray hair that got caught in the mask.

Since yours itches during the day, I doubt that there is such a simple resolution. Either the Liberty or the Hybrid, which I still occasionally use, would leave your nose exposed. If your insurance pays for either, I would try one of those first, since the zzz mask, although much more comfortable than the full face Mirage, still covers your mouth and nose.

[SharkBait]

Great, great review!

I did not like the Hybrid and love the LIberty, but now I will have to try the Zzz-Mask. I know what you mean about the construction of the Liberty. When I was trying it on and testing it out, I was thinking "I'm gonna have to be careful with this thing". It just seems so... brittle.

I will say the LIberty did NOT beat the Mirage LT, and so I'm still taping my mouth. Right now I have the Liberty simply as a back-up in case I get a cold. Perhaps the Zzz-Mask will be one that prompts me to move away from Nasal Pillows altogether. I will definitely give it a try based on the posts in this thread.

Thanks so much for the info!!!

[JoyD.]

spottydogspot wrote: I may be able to get my insurance to pay for a liberty, but I will be on my own with the other two.

Spottydog, Why is that? I thought Medicare or private insurance paid for any CPAP mask . . . I'm sure others will confirm or refute this belief of mine. Also, there are online CPAP equipment/mask suppliers who WILL submit claims to Medicare, Medicaid, or other insurance:
http://www.billmyinsurance.com/
http://www.cpapforseniors.com/
http://www.walgreenshealth.com/whc/opti ... oncare.com

Joy

[shooter]

I purchased a ZZZ mask based on this forum thread and a few others.
Its a big disappointment in my case. It is turbulent and it leaks. By tightening the straps to stop the leaks the edges of the cushion became intolerable.
The cushion is a little thicker and stiffer than some other masks. My wife says it is also noisier than my other masks.
It is well constructed and would probably last forever but it doesn't work for me.
Still looking.

[spottydogspot]

Thanks JoyD for the info. I guess my DME did mention that they were the Preferred provider. I do have an HMO thing, but to me it would make sense that I could go somewhere else to get a mask also. I guess I should call my insurance company.

I am going to see my DME this afternoon, so I am hoping that he will at least order me a liberty. They carry the resmed and respironics line, but I am a mouth breather. He had me try the swift for her and i thought i was going to die because I couldn't breath let alone keep my mouth closed.

I will ask him if he can order from other manufacturers. I would think they could, if I can, duh!!

I will also check those websites now too, before I go there. It would be nice to only pay 20% instead of a full price!!

Oh, I didn't end up wearing my mask right now. I thought it wasn't helping, but boy oh boy was i wrong!! I have been in bed till now and it is noon....that is not good, so I think there was some benefit even if I didnt notice it before. Maybe hope after all.

Thanks again

[talktobon]

I read some reviews that said this mask vents up toward the eyes, and against pillows. How bad is it? How loud is this thing? Need to buy a FFM soon!

[WearyOne]

I've tried all three of these as well...love the Hybrid w/o the chip flap, tolerate the Zzz, and can't stand the Liberty. The Liberty is very painful on me right above my upper lip, and I can't stand the way the straps clip on the shell.

Pam

[tdm5032c]

Okay, since you are all talking about the Zzz mask, I just have a question about the headgear. Does it go over the ears(on top of) as the pictures on cpap.com seem to indicate? I can't stand any straps against or over the ears, so this would be my only problem with this mask. I'm looking to get a good, comfortable full face mask as a back-up and would appreciate thoughts about this from those of you that have it.

Thanks

[shooter]

The straps on my zzz do not touch my ears at all. The picture on cpap.com are not representative of the actual fit on me.