I was wrong.

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:41 pm

But it worked out great. I thought I was mouth leaking, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It turns out that the pressure of 10 cm was too low. I am now back to my Swift II mask with no mouth taping and using APAP 8 to 12. I had an AHI of 0.7 last night. My lowest recorded AHI!

Now if I can fix this problem with upper back pain under the should blades and high sides I will be golden.

LavenderMist · Post by **LavenderMist** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:59 pm

It's great you were able to pinpoint the problem and get a low AHI. Hope you get your upper back and side problem figured out. Do you think it could be aerophagia?

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:48 pm

I don't think so. I think it is more of a musculature thing. The pain goes away once I have been up for an hour or so. It is bad enough to wake me up though.

[quote="LavenderMist"]It's great you were able to pinpoint the problem and get a low AHI. Hope you get your upper back and side problem figured out. Do you think it could be aerophagia?

Suz-E-Q · Post by **Suz-E-Q** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:08 pm

Flying Norse....have you tried a chiropractor? I live and die by mine. You might just need an alignment...???
Suzanne

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:31 pm

I may try that and/or I might see about getting a script for a massage.

LavenderMist · Post by **LavenderMist** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 6:06 am

If you suspect it is muscles, then a therapeutic massage would probably really help. In the meantime, moist heat would be a good bet to ease the muscles.

Slinky · Post by **Slinky** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:13 am

I found that CPAP use tends to "encourage" us to sleep on our backs, and to discourage us from changing positions very much at first. At least until we become more comfortable and familiar w/sleeping w/a mask on our face. The shoulders and sides may be muscles objecting to spending more time in one position than what you were used to prior to CPAP. I wouldn't say I was tossing and turning in my sleep like I used to prior to CPAP but I am sleeping on my sides as well as my back now whereas at first .... I spent most of my nights on my back virtually all night long.

Lepeu63 · Post by **Lepeu63** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:37 am

I found I was twisting my head 'up' when side-sleeping due to the mask and that was causing upper back pain similarly to what you describe. Futzing with my pillow to allow a more natural sleep posture helped 100%

TerryB · Post by **TerryB** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 9:56 am

I too went through a "spell" where I had upper back/neck pain that I attribute to trying to hold up my head to relieve pressure on the mask or harness. No longer a problem and the period was probably less than ten days. Did you just make a change in mask/pillow/ position?

TerryB

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:16 am

Thanks for all the feedback. I think the most significant change is that I am probably sleeping on my back MUCH more than I used to. I couldn't do it at all before. I actually woke up a few times from a sound sleep a bit panicked because I was flat on my back. In the past, I would have been unable to breathe properly in that position.

The thing is for the first few weeks of my therapy I did not have this soreness and my pressure was set at 10. When I finally changed machines, I came to realize that 10 was not allowing me to get my AHI below 5 and it was sometimes as high as 14.4. I felt terrible after those nights. Now that I have set the machine to APAP with a range of 8 to 12 I am getting my first AHI numbers below 1. Over the weekend I tried going back to a constant pressure of 10 and I was still sore and the AHI numbers were over 12 each night.

I am hoping that it will gradually fade and then I will be all set. Ibuprofen doesn't seem to do anything for me. I might try some Alleve before bed tonight to see if that helps. The upside is that I feel incredibly rested albeit very sore.

WillCunningham · Post by **WillCunningham** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:41 pm

I have had this exact pain, you did a really good job of articulating exactly what you are feeling. I have had many experiences with what you have described.

The pain does fade and stop being so acute after a while, I would say the 8-10 day guesstimate is fairly accurate to my situation as well.

I originally though it was caused by my muscles getting tired fighting against the high pressure to breath out, but I don't really think that is the case. I tend to have it flair up on occasions where I transition to well treated apnea. I had a problem with some old masks where they would stop making a good seal over time. When I swapped in a fresh mask I started feeling more rested but also re-experienced the soreness and had to "get used to it" again.

I run into it every once in a while now that my treatment has stabilized, but it happens less often and is less severe when it does happen. It also tends to go away much faster after I wake up and sit up. I think they are onto something with the "not changing positions" theory, I have made it feel better by laying on my side rather than back or stomach.

It is an interesting issue and while it is rarely a problem for me anymore I do really hate it when it strikes. I would love find more info about it too.

I can say this much, it is worth it. Good Luck!

*Edit: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention this but I found it helpful to do a stretching exercise I learned in school. It is the one where you make small circles with your arms stretched out to you sides and then slowly make the circles bigger. That helped me get over it faster when I did run into this.

Flying_Norseman · Post by **Flying_Norseman** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 1:36 pm

Thanks Will! I think it is clear that we have/had the same exact issue. I will try those stretches and like you, it did coincide with getting good treatment. I appreciate your response. It makes me feel more confident that I will get through the issue.

Reidan · Post by **Reidan** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:41 pm

I too have had these pains. I have always slept on my side and still do with my CPAP. I tend to hurt more when I have slept thru the night without waking up. Laying on my back will ease the pain. An ice bag on the sore area will ease the pain faster. I have been having it for about 3 weeks now. I did start seeing my Chiropractor about 2 weeks ago. Getting adjustments and laying on the traction table help. It is getting to be less painful when I wake up.

j.a.taylor · Post by **j.a.taylor** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 4:44 pm

Sorry, my warped mind.

Every time I see the title to this post, it takes me back to the 80's:

I actually took the time to read this book.

Snoredog · Post by **Snoredog** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 5:15 pm

you might see a doctor about getting a cervical spine x-ray. Sometimes we hold our necks "stiff" when wearing the mask where we didn't before, this can be from too much pressure on the lower strap. This same tension can cause headaches.

depending on the mask you are using, you might try flipping the headgear upside down.

Muscle-skeletal pains can interrupt your sleep, just as it does while awake. Try taking an Aleve before bed and see if you don't sleep better.

If you haven't experienced these pains before CPAP and you are new with therapy, one theory is CPAP can inflate your lungs more, this can put pressure on the rib cage from the inside, it may be just enough to pinch a nerve. If you can isolate exactly where the pain is coming from a good doctor should be able to isolate exactly the vertebra which is the cause. If the pain is from the lung expansion on the rib cage it should go away on its own without doing anything. If it persists I would see a doctor.

I would try taking a Aleve twice a day for about a week.

Mask

Additional Comments: APAP 10cm to 12cm C-Flex 2

Mask

Additional Comments: APAP 10cm to 12cm C-Flex 2

Mask

Additional Comments: APAP 10cm to 12cm C-Flex 2

Mask