Moby wrote:Christy, I think you should start a new thread.

I'd do it for you, but I think that would be interfering

I can't wait to start nagging you:P

Di

Now by request here's my own thread... In honor of Kathy here is my post from her thread Do As I Say Not As I Do...

AdmiralCougar wrote:

kteague wrote:I'm a bit irritated at myself tonight. I am good at giving advice but not following it myself. I struggle to understand why people don't follow up on important things with their doctors, yet here I sit.

I say all this to say that when one is sleep deprived, every little thing feels like too much effort, so things get put off. But I (we) have to figure out how to not let the important things fall by the wayside along with the insignificant.

If anyone reading this has been stalling on taking care of their business, here's your prompt.

Kathy

First of all let me add my condolences to you and your family. My Prayers will be with you and yours during this difficult time.

Now Kathy don't get down on yourself, you're only human and sleep deprived at that. I totally know how you feel though... I've been putting off getting a hold of the Bariatric program and finding where to send my questionnaire (I gave the information to my husband to read over and he lost the return envelope, he had totally misplaced everything but finally found the most important stuff). Kaiser has approved me to participate in their Severe Obesity and Bariatric Surgery Program. I suppose I've put it off because I'm scared and not sure I really want to resort to surgery but at 30 and weighing 486 lb (513 at the time of referral) I'm not sure I really have a choice. The thing is even if I don't choose to have the surgery the rest of the program is beneficial to weight lose and management so I need to kick myself into gear. Feel free to poke me till you hear I've actual sent off my questionnaire...

Christy

Now feel free to Poke... Do remember that I can't do anything till offices open up again on Monday...

Christy

Fresh from the New England Journal of Medicine (http://www.nejm.org):
Volume 357:753-761 August 23, 2007 Number 8

Effects of Bariatric Surgery on Mortality in Swedish Obese Subjects
Lars Sjöström, M.D., Ph.D., Kristina Narbro, Ph.D., C. David Sjöström, M.D., Ph.D., Kristjan Karason, M.D., Ph.D., Bo Larsson, M.D., Ph.D., Hans Wedel, Ph.D., Ted Lystig, Ph.D., Marianne Sullivan, Ph.D., Claude Bouchard, Ph.D., Björn Carlsson, M.D., Ph.D., Calle Bengtsson, M.D., Ph.D., Sven Dahlgren, M.D., Ph.D., Anders Gummesson, M.D., Peter Jacobson, M.D., Ph.D., Jan Karlsson, Ph.D., Anna-Karin Lindroos, Ph.D., Hans Lönroth, M.D., Ph.D., Ingmar Näslund, M.D., Ph.D., Torsten Olbers, M.D., Ph.D., Kaj Stenlöf, M.D., Ph.D., Jarl Torgerson, M.D., Ph.D., Göran Ågren, M.D., Lena M.S. Carlsson, M.D., Ph.D., for the Swedish Obese Subjects Study


Background Obesity is associated with increased mortality. Weight loss improves cardiovascular risk factors, but no prospective interventional studies have reported whether weight loss decreases overall mortality. In fact, many observational studies suggest that weight reduction is associated with increased mortality.

Methods The prospective, controlled Swedish Obese Subjects study involved 4047 obese subjects. Of these subjects, 2010 underwent bariatric surgery (surgery group) and 2037 received conventional treatment (matched control group). We report on overall mortality during an average of 10.9 years of follow-up. At the time of the analysis (November 1, 2005), vital status was known for all but three subjects (follow-up rate, 99.9%).

Results The average weight change in control subjects was less than ±2% during the period of up to 15 years during which weights were recorded. Maximum weight losses in the surgical subgroups were observed after 1 to 2 years: gastric bypass, 32%; vertical-banded gastroplasty, 25%; and banding, 20%. After 10 years, the weight losses from baseline were stabilized at 25%, 16%, and 14%, respectively. There were 129 deaths in the control group and 101 deaths in the surgery group. The unadjusted overall hazard ratio was 0.76 in the surgery group (P=0.04), as compared with the control group, and the hazard ratio adjusted for sex, age, and risk factors was 0.71 (P=0.01). The most common causes of death were myocardial infarction (control group, 25 subjects; surgery group, 13 subjects) and cancer (control group, 47; surgery group, 29).

Conclusions Bariatric surgery for severe obesity is associated with long-term weight loss and decreased overall mortality.

and

Long-Term Mortality after Gastric Bypass Surgery

Ted D. Adams, Ph.D., M.P.H., Richard E. Gress, M.A., Sherman C. Smith, M.D., R. Chad Halverson, M.D., Steven C. Simper, M.D., Wayne D. Rosamond, Ph.D., Michael J. LaMonte, Ph.D., M.P.H., Antoinette M. Stroup, Ph.D., and Steven C. Hunt, Ph.D.

ABSTRACT

Background Although gastric bypass surgery accounts for 80% of bariatric surgery in the United States, only limited long-term data are available on mortality among patients who have undergone this procedure as compared with severely obese persons from a general population.

Methods In this retrospective cohort study, we determined the long-term mortality (from 1984 to 2002) among 9949 patients who had undergone gastric bypass surgery and 9628 severely obese persons who applied for driver's licenses. From these subjects, 7925 surgical patients and 7925 severely obese control subjects were matched for age, sex, and body-mass index. We determined the rates of death from any cause and from specific causes with the use of the National Death Index.

Results During a mean follow-up of 7.1 years, adjusted long-term mortality from any cause in the surgery group decreased by 40%, as compared with that in the control group (37.6 vs. 57.1 deaths per 10,000 person-years, P<0.001); cause-specific mortality in the surgery group decreased by 56% for coronary artery disease (2.6 vs. 5.9 per 10,000 person-years, P=0.006), by 92% for diabetes (0.4 vs. 3.4 per 10,000 person-years, P=0.005), and by 60% for cancer (5.5 vs. 13.3 per 10,000 person-years, P<0.001). However, rates of death not caused by disease, such as accidents and suicide, were 58% higher in the surgery group than in the control group (11.1 vs. 6.4 per 10,000 person-years, P=0.04).

Conclusions Long-term total mortality after gastric bypass surgery was significantly reduced, particularly deaths from diabetes, heart disease, and cancer. However, the rate of death from causes other than disease was higher in the surgery group than in the control group.

Go for it, Christy.

O.

And to follow-up on O'z nicely researched scientific publications, I will give you a totally subjective anecdote of 1-person's results

My sister's college friend (22? 23? y.o.) was very obese, and she had this surgery last year. It was very successful, and she was very happy after it was done. Not that looks are everything, but she looks stunning now! And she continues to eat healthy, something else you mentioned the study helps you with. And of course the numerous health benefits...

Go for it Christy, (do your research first of course)!

And if you feel like you need more help in this area, read "Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway".
(oops, something I need to re-read as well, as per my previous post today )

Christy,
You now have some of the best poking I have seen. All I can add is tomorrow's Monday, go for it and look forward to the improved life.

One caveat, Christy. If you are single. If not, maybe this won't happen to you.

Two of my cousins had this surgery. Both became rather overwhelmed with their new found desirability. They both began sleeping with anyone that smiled at them. Both are unemployed at this writing. Yes, many of those men were co-workers.

Both did eventually get married. One is doing okay, but her life isn't cake. The other has become a very severe alcoholic. Her children were removed from the home last year, after several years of failed rehab attempts. BTW, children were from a previous relationship, prior to her surgery.

Do look up Carney Wilson and her struggle:
http://www.obesitydiscussion.com/forums ... -2271.html

I can't find the interview she did on Oprah about her alcoholism, but it was chilling for me. She's not as bad off as my cousin is, but she's had a very similar experience. My cousin has had numerous trips to the emergency room for injuries due to her drinking. My poor aunt is pushing 80 and having to care for her long distance. It's killing my aunt.

Lastly, a co-worker had this surgery. He left his wife and baby daughter after he'd lost about 50 lbs. He left his education job this summer. I'm not really sure what happened to him, but he used to be this very patient, fun, great guy. After surgery, he's riding a motorcycle, and has left educating the downtrodden to sell something for some big-deal corporation. Oh, and attempting to seduce my 25 year old receptionist who weighs 89 pounds soaking wet...

That's three people who came out of their "fat shell" in what I would consider a "bad way." I am the first person to tell you I grew this fat shell to protect myself from the slings and arrows of a relationship/dating pool I felt unable to navigate effectively in. It's not a GOOD SOLUTION to emotional problems, but I really don't see that bariatric surgery is a good solution, either. Neither really addresses the emotional issues.

My mother has offered to buy me bariatric surgery. I am currently refusing, because I accepted her offer of some "vanity" surgery back in the 1990's, and am now left with very limited vision. My eyesight was butchered - I really cannot bring myself to risk another possible botched surgery. And then there's the examples I've come across above.

Sorry to be a wet blanket. You're at a significant weight, and you've probably heard all of this. I'm sharing for those out there who are not posting, but might be reading and contemplating.

Christy, I wish you the VERY BEST OF LUCK, and really look forward to your continuing story on this subject. I was thinking of starting a thread about my own weight loss journey (that I'VE STILL NOT STARTED YET) and maybe we can all provide support and assistance in this struggle.

You've really impressed me on this forum, Christy. Please persevere. You're a valuable person on this planet, and I'd hate to see you go!!!!

Cheers,
B.

Christy,

I admit I don't have a clue what the right decision will be for you. But I am sure that members of this forum appreciate you and will support you whatever route you take. You know the weight you are at is a ticking time bomb. Only you, along with your family and physicians, can decide how best to approach it and mitigate potential health issues.

The only person I know who had bariatric surgery had a very good outcome. She went from having diabetes to being diabetes free, from having zero energy to a good energy level. She of course did have some bumps along the road after the surgery in terms of suffering gastrointestinal problems whenever she ate more than she was supposed to or ate something she was not supposed to. It took awhile for her to totally change her habits.

Babette is right that there are bad outcomes as well. My advice, which I am sure you already know, is do a lot of research and talk to as many people who have had the surgery as possible. If at all possible, talk also with people who have decided against the surgery.

We all wish the best for you.

Janna

Babette wrote:
Do look up Carney Wilson and her struggle:
http://www.obesitydiscussion.com/forums ... -2271.html

That's three people who came out of their "fat shell" in what I would consider a "bad way."

Christy,

I agree with Babette, and don't think that she's being a "wet blanket." I think that she's just trying to make you aware of the emotional aspects of your recovery as well.

I have a cousin a few years older than me, who has been severely overweight since we were little children. She had the surgery a couple of years ago, and has done wonderfully. However, she did say that at times the hardest part of her recovery was the emotional rollercoaster that she wasn't really prepared to handle.

If you go into this prepared, you can rest assured that not only do you have a support system here, but you'll find others who can share from the wealth of their experience.

And, if you know that you're going to be riding the rollercoaster ahead of time, you can feel the thrill, and enjoy the ride!

Best wishes for you!

Thanks everyone. Between me and my friends we've known a few people to actually go through the surgery which is one reason I'm afraid of it. Of the 3 we know one died and the other two had gained more weight than they started out as. And the fourth we know going to have the surgery thinks they can have it and not change their life style at all, which scares everyone that knows her but she wont listen.

My husband doesn't want me to have the surgery he's scared, and I don't blame him. But the program is allot more than the surgery it includes healthy lifestyle classes and you have an assigned nutritionist and social worker, and access to physical therapy or mental health resources if needed. Kaiser's program is holistic, which is why even just participating in it with out doing the surgery would be beneficial. You even get the opportunity to talk to past participants.

It is very good to hear both sides. And the research links are good too. I just hope I can get over my fear of Dr. enough to go through with everything. It's been hard enough taking care of what I have so far... And the whole root of my fear of Dr. started from the last surgery I had, which was my Tonsillectomy and Adenoidectomy when I was a kid, and they didn't take my claustrophobia seriously. That's a story I should post on my blog... something else I started and haven't had the energy to keep up on.

'gles everyone, and a special 'gle to Babette. Thanks so much for sharing everyone.

Christy

Oh Christy, this sounds like a very good program! Not just a chop shop, send you home and you're on your own. Definitely call them!!!!

I think my cousin the alcoholic DID NOT GET GOOD AFTER CARE, and she was NOT told about any special diet restrictions. She got her's WAY back in the day... Like the early 1990's, and my other cousin had her's in the late 1990's, and I heard them compare notes. My second cousin was shocked that cousin #1 wasn't following the diet guidelines cousin #2 was given.

And having a husband who loves you enough to want to keep you AS IS is a JOY, BLESSING AND TREASURE BEYOND PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are a lucky woman. Tell him you want to keep enjoying him a little while longer, and GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And tell him that you promise not to lose too much weight, so he can keep his chubby fantasies.... You laugh - I've dated MANY MANY CHUBBY CHASERS! It's biological. They can't help it. God bless them, there's one online right now demanding pix of me. I sent him Taz's OSA Icon. Thankfully he's married and I know he's harmless (very old friend). But he's also very good for my ego.

We're here for you, every step. Okay, I gotta quit talking about it and read this diet book I got. I know, I know... But surely the 487th diet book is the charm?

I love your GIFs so much, Christy! I feel warm and huggy all over!!!!

GIANT CYBER HUG RIGHT BACK,
B.

Hi Christy,

I had a gastric bypass on Oct 24th 2005. I have lost roughly 120lbs and feel much better. Weightloss surgery is life changing, and has worked out well for me.

I feel better, move around better, have a lower pressure for my cpap and I have overall better health.

The easy part is having the surgery. The hard part is everything that comes after. I had to re-learn how to eat. It is as though I had a baby stomach and could not eat solid food for nearly 2 months. I had to add foods one at a time to see how I would react to them.

I can't more than 9 grams of sugar or much fat without having dumping syndrome. dumping is when you eat too much sugar, carbs or fat and your body releases insulin quickly. The result is your blood sugar drops to the floor about an hour later and you feel like you are going to die. You have to lay down. Sometimes it takes hours for me to get over this. It is like getting an electric shock therapy to curb your behavior. Everytime you step out of line, you get shocked... or in weightloss sugery patients, you get sick.

I am all for the sugery and all for learning new eating habits, but I do remember about a month after surgery wondering why I put myself through this. I think everyone I have known who has had the surgery has gone through that depressive moment. It passes as you make progress.

I had no pain at all after the surgery and was up power walking in the ICU the same day as the surgery. I think taking the catheter out hurt most of all... OUCH!

Do your home work and read as much as possible. Find a bariatric support group and go to all the meetings. You will be fine.

Regards,

Ted Nugent

Wow Ted thanks for sharing... Not sure I really fear the pain itself after all the years of Migraines, knee pain, back pain, shoulder pain... I've pretty desensitized to most of it... But good to know you didn't experience that much. I laughed at an image of myself power walking with my husband this will be a family affair after all... Me and my short self... I realize there are shorter people but at 5'1" I'm usually towered over and can never keep up with anyone especially my husband. Power walking taking yard size steps, might as well be running... Maybe I'm just amused to easily in my tired state.

Now I know I need to call, but the Repair man is here repairing the Washer, and I don't want to get on the phone and talk about my business with him here so give me a bit. It's only 10:30 and I only got up 30 min ago right before he got here anyway, so there is still plenty of time...

Christy

tic.. toc... tic... toc :

{{ good luck }}

OK I made the first call and got the case manager's voice mail... So here I wait for a call back.

Congrats for taking the first big step! Fingers crossed you get a call back soon

It's after 5 so probably no call today. Got D&D tonight though so I'll be off till tomorrow will keep everyone posted.