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Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:06 pm
by Dan_McD
Pugsy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:08 pm
kbh209 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:52 pm
If I'm not seeing any "foam particles" in the humidifier, tubing or my mask, I should in theory still be using my machine , so I don't fall asleep permanently, right?
I am sorry but you are asking me a question that I simply can't answer because there is so much I don't know about all this. What I know is actually very little.
I don't know if whatever particles that might be making it to the water chamber and on are even of a size that can be seen.
I don't know how much of an issue simple off gassing might be.
Just because particulates can't be seen doesn't mean they aren't present. That sort of thing.
I also know that there is a risk associated with not using cpap as well....so each person has to decide for themselves which risk scares them the worse.
I can't make that decision for someone nor will I.
I can tell a person what I would do if the only machine I had was an affected machine....and I did that a couple of times already in this thread. I might add an inline bacterial filter though. While I know it won't necessarily help much with gaseous exchange...it will catch the larger particulates. In fact Phillips recommends that patients who are on life saving ventilators that are affected to do just that.
Whatever, if ever, any protection that filter might offer....is better than no protection.
I would still proceed with obtaining a non affected machine at my earliest opportunity.
Stopping cpap for me would mean my O2 levels tanking to around 70%....that's a known risk and a pretty bad risk at that.
It scares me worse than the maybe risk of the foam maybe breaking down.
On the registration website there is a section for professionals such as doctors and sleep study clinics. It has different info than what is available to us deplorables in flyover country.
Phillips tells them that even though particles don't show up in your hose or mask that does not mean there is not degradation of the foam. It can still release the dangerous chemicals Like "Toluene Diamine", Toluene diisocyanate etc. etc. The professionals discussed this on a YouTube video and are talking like this could take a year to sort out. I'm inclined to believe it is every man or women for themselves, and to do what is best for yourself.
This is the name of the video "Impact of the Philips PAP Recall on Patient Care and Sleep Center Operations" and the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H80vyhFb5vc
I also have O2 levels in the low 70's, plus I stop breathing at times. I also have COPD and can't even think about other crap going into my lungs. I am ordering a new Air Sense 10 and will sort this Dreamstation fiasco out while I'm still alive.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 pm
by Yousuf
Okay, this is a pretty long thread, I don't have time to read through it all to see if this question was previously asked. Now, this recall is about units that were cleaned with the Ozone/Activated Oxygen method of cleaning, right? If you didn't use that method to clean the unit, then you should have no problems with these pieces of foam from getting into the airways, right? However, Philips will still replace your unit or parts of your unit, whether or not the damage has occurred, regardless?
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:49 pm
by zonker
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 pm
Okay, this is a pretty long thread, I don't have time to read through it all to see if this question was previously asked.
you don't have time to read about something that could potentially impact your health?
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:58 pm
by Pugsy
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 pm
Okay, this is a pretty long thread, I don't have time to read through it all to see if this question was previously asked. Now, this recall is about units that were cleaned with the Ozone/Activated Oxygen method of cleaning, right? If you didn't use that method to clean the unit, then you should have no problems with these pieces of foam from getting into the airways, right? However, Philips will still replace your unit or parts of your unit, whether or not the damage has occurred, regardless?
No...the recall is about devices regardless of being exposed to ozone or not.
Just read the very first post and go to the recall notice and it's all explained there.....no need to read all the other discussions...just one post...the first post...and follow the links.
Surely you have the time to do that?????
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:55 pm
by Yousuf
Pugsy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:58 pm
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 pm
Okay, this is a pretty long thread, I don't have time to read through it all to see if this question was previously asked. Now, this recall is about units that were cleaned with the Ozone/Activated Oxygen method of cleaning, right? If you didn't use that method to clean the unit, then you should have no problems with these pieces of foam from getting into the airways, right? However, Philips will still replace your unit or parts of your unit, whether or not the damage has occurred, regardless?
No...the recall is about devices regardless of being exposed to ozone or not.
Just read the very first post and go to the recall notice and it's all explained there.....no need to read all the other discussions...just one post...the first post...and follow the links.
Surely you have the time to do that?????
I read the recall notice, that's why I have questions here.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:04 am
by Pugsy
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:55 pm
I read the recall notice, that's why I have questions here.
Sigh...
read it again....
they make it pretty damn clear.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:08 am
by Dan_McD
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:55 pm
Pugsy wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:58 pm
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:43 pm
Okay, this is a pretty long thread, I don't have time to read through it all to see if this question was previously asked. Now, this recall is about units that were cleaned with the Ozone/Activated Oxygen method of cleaning, right? If you didn't use that method to clean the unit, then you should have no problems with these pieces of foam from getting into the airways, right? However, Philips will still replace your unit or parts of your unit, whether or not the damage has occurred, regardless?
No...the recall is about devices regardless of being exposed to ozone or not.
Just read the very first post and go to the recall notice and it's all explained there.....no need to read all the other discussions...just one post...the first post...and follow the links.
Surely you have the time to do that?????
I read the recall notice, that's why I have questions here.
What's your question? Other than ozone effecting the foam in the Phillip's manufactured machines. It is more than just ozone. It was an inferior and dangerous foam that deteriorated over time by heat and humidity and disintegrated and found it's way through your breathing apparatus and into your lungs. Plus... it released several chemicals some which cause irritation of the throat and my be cancerous. Next question?
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:15 am
by Yousuf
Pugsy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:04 am
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:55 pm
I read the recall notice, that's why I have questions here.
Sigh...
read it again....
they make it pretty damn clear.
Nope, it wasn't, if it was then I'd have no questions here.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:25 am
by Pugsy
Yousuf wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:15 am
Pugsy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:04 am
Yousuf wrote: ↑Sun Jun 20, 2021 11:55 pm
I read the recall notice, that's why I have questions here.
Sigh...
read it again....
they make it pretty damn clear.
Nope, it wasn't, if it was then I'd have no questions here.
Does it limit the recall to machines that have only been exposed to ozone?
https://www.philipssrcupdate.expertinquiry.com/
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:50 am
by Yousuf
The link doesn't answer that.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:10 am
by packitin
I am flabbergasted to no end.
What do I do now? I pulled out my long ago discarded System One 750P bipap and used it for the last 3 nights, and my AHI has tripled, but its all I've got!
Do you have any advice on what to tell my sleep doc, who I see tomorrow morning?
I'm thinking of saying "To heck with it, I'll take care of myself - I don't need anyone's help - I've been doing this for 15 years, and I thought I was prolonging my life - now I think I may have shortened it!!
Hope I'm not overreacting, but I can't help it. (sorry for the rant)
Thanks for any advice. I feel like I'm going to find the cheapest Resmed I can, buy it myself, and not use anymore advice from sleep docs or DME suppliers, I'm finished with them.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:51 am
by old dude
Reading between the lines a bit in the Philips announcement they remind the user that the general service life of PAP devices is considered to be 5 years. Does anyone else think that it might be a waste of time to register and seek mitigation with devices older than this?
For various reasons I tend to hang on to older machines as long as they still work. I’m sure I’m not alone in this.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:17 am
by GrumpyHere
packitin wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:10 am
I feel like I'm going to find the cheapest Resmed I can
You need at least an AutoSet. Avoid AS10 CPAP - not OSCAR compatible.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:13 am
by HairyReasoner
old dude wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:51 am
Reading between the lines a bit in the Philips announcement they remind the user that the general service life of PAP devices is considered to be 5 years. Does anyone else think that it might be a waste of time to register and seek mitigation with devices older than this?
For various reasons I tend to hang on to older machines as long as they still work. I’m sure I’m not alone in this.
I have yet to see a good argument as to why machines should be replaced every 5 years, even if it is still working well. Resmed's argument seems to simply be so you can take advantage of the latest features. But if you don't need those latest features, why do you need to replace the unit?
I suspect it has more to do with the fact the manufacturers need you to replace your machine every 5 years. The main health helped is their financial health.
You are wise to hang on to your old units for such a time as this. I'm glad I still kept my old M series, even though that's two units ago for me now. Both my Dreamstation and my System One are in the recall. Just hope the M series hangs in there a while.
Re: Sticky: Phillips Respironics recent recall notice discussion thread
Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:47 am
by old dude
HairyReasoner wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:13 am
old dude wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:51 am
Reading between the lines a bit in the Philips announcement they remind the user that the general service life of PAP devices is considered to be 5 years. Does anyone else think that it might be a waste of time to register and seek mitigation with devices older than this?
For various reasons I tend to hang on to older machines as long as they still work. I’m sure I’m not alone in this.
I have yet to see a good argument as to why machines should be replaced every 5 years, even if it is still working well. Resmed's argument seems to simply be so you can take advantage of the latest features. But if you don't need those latest features, why do you need to replace the unit?
I suspect it has more to do with the fact the manufacturers need you to replace your machine every 5 years. The main health helped is their financial health.
You are wise to hang on to your old units for such a time as this. I'm glad I still kept my old M series, even though that's two units ago for me now. Both my Dreamstation and my System One are in the recall. Just hope the M series hangs in there a while.
Hairy, my point is that perhaps Philips is laying the groundwork to limit their exposure by saying they have no obligation to repair or replace machines past their stated service life anyway.