osa, ahi, m-o-u-s-e UPDATED 1-5-21

got a question for you all. first, the graphs-











as you can see, these aren't from consecutive nights. but they DO happen, particularly and almost solely from back sleeping.

i'm at min 18-max 20.

the question is-does it look like i'm ever going to get my pressure high enough with an apap machine to conquer these obstructive events?

Why are you worried about those few events...How long are the events?. In 12 years I have only been below 1 about a dozen times.

Hate to be obvious, but is there a reason you''re backsleeping vs side sleeping?

Have you tried to not backsleep?

I noticed you tend to have small clusters of events fairly close together, then nothing the rest of the night. Are you sure you are not seeing SWJ? From my own experience, when I see three or four OAs close together, it is usually SWJ.

Probably a little REM stage sleep involvement as well.

To be honest...I don't see you increasing the pressure enough to prevent the clusters but you aren't having a lot of them so I don't know if I would lose sleep over them...unless you aren't feeling so great....
You could try reducing EPR or turning it off and see if that helps or not...and cross your fingers the aerophagia monster doesn't return.

Technically you need a bilevel machine...preferably auto of course...like the AirCurve 10 VAuto so it only goes higher when absolutely needed.

Julie wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:44 pm

Hate to be obvious, but is there a reason you''re backsleeping vs side sleeping?

Have you tried to not backsleep?

back sleeping due to slight pain in lower back that flairs up now and again. i find that i naturally roll onto my back when that happens.

Okie bipap wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:05 pm

I noticed you tend to have small clusters of events fairly close together, then nothing the rest of the night. Are you sure you are not seeing SWJ? From my own experience, when I see three or four OAs close together, it is usually SWJ.

you know, i don't actually know. i just figure swj is something that impacts newbies and that somehow i just magically overcame it with experience.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:11 pm

Probably a little REM stage sleep involvement as well.

To be honest...I don't see you increasing the pressure enough to prevent the clusters but you aren't having a lot of them so I don't know if I would lose sleep over them...unless you aren't feeling so great....
You could try reducing EPR or turning it off and see if that helps or not...and cross your fingers the aerophagia monster doesn't return.

Technically you need a bilevel machine...preferably auto of course...like the AirCurve 10 VAuto so it only goes higher when absolutely needed.

yeah, i put it the way i did because i didn't want the topic of "chasing zero" to come up.

i hadn't thought of rem sleep, either. not reducing epr. might try that tonight and see how she goes.

in the end, i may want to keep a sleep journal, to see if rem is the culprit. and going to the bilevel machine was what i was wondering.

fo now, i'll play with settings to see what is what. i'm not desperate to get to zero. i'm more like curious to see what it would be like to have x number of days in a row with zeroes.

If you want to learn how to figure out SWJ arousal/awake breathing vs asleep breathing

http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

Remember the machine responds to SWJ just like it was the real deal so it is entirely possible the max of 20 might be in response to SWJ stuff....but to be honest...in the middle of the night I lean towards probably REM involvement but you can look to make sure.
Zoom in on the OA clusters.

Now when I see small clusters right around known awake times like at the beginning or ending of a sleep session then I tend to think good chance of SWJ stuff.

I would be wanting a bilevel anyway with needing pressures in the high teens. Real or SWJ ...I would be wanting that extra PS beyond the 3 you get with EPR at 3.

After ten years, I am still waiting.
I just figure I have defective sleep, and cpap takes care of most of it--but not all.
Most nights I get enough zzz's, but why do so many doctors want to see me
so blasted early in the morning?
I expected more late mornings after I retired . . .
Something I was really looking forward to.

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:11 pm

You could try reducing EPR or turning it off and see if that helps or not...and cross your fingers the aerophagia monster doesn't return.

reduced the epr by 1, from three to two. no aerophagia. but had an increase in gas, which was easily handled.

my breathing went a bit wonky. it wasn't "natural", so to speak. with epr set to three, i'd have nice long breaths. i've often thought of it as sips of air. nice and even.

with epr at two, my breathing became "shorter". not quite panting. i felt more that once i took in a breath, it had to be released immediately. and once it was released, it to be drawn in immediately. and so on. i think this is what newbies sometimes describe.

however, kept trying to relax and it must of worked, because lights out at 11 and next thing i know, it's 12:30. but the problem remained and kept waking me up throughout the night. but these were micro arousals and i got back to sleep. finally woke at 5:30. after a bathroom break, got back into bed and my breathing seemed to sort itself out. couple more small awakenings then up at 8:15.

most of the night i was bothered by sore spots in shoulders and hips and so on. more so than usual, though i don't know whether to blame the epr reduction or not.

had one obstructive.-
will, of course, keep it this way for tonight and see how it goes.

OH! and haven't watched the video yet, but will.

If (big If) those clusters are REM related then maybe the overall poor sleep quality meant not as much REM.
I see that happen and my OSA is REM worse. The nights where I don't sleep so great I usually see less pressure variations....and I haven't changed the settings. Something to think about.

Also it could be the change in EPR was a factor in poor sleep quality. Let's face it...our body/brain gets used to one thing and when we go screwing with things the brain goes "hey dude...something isn't right".

Pugsy wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:32 am

If (big If) those clusters are REM related then maybe the overall poor sleep quality meant not as much REM.
I see that happen and my OSA is REM worse. The nights where I don't sleep so great I usually see less pressure variations....and I haven't changed the settings. Something to think about.

Also it could be the change in EPR was a factor in poor sleep quality. Let's face it...our body/brain gets used to one thing and when we go screwing with things the brain goes "hey dude...something isn't right".

if preliminary data holds to be true, it's not rem sleep. made a note of the time when i woke up with a well remembered dream. there was no cluster.

my body decided to acclimate to the reduction of epr from 3 to 2. it's still a bit jittery when breathing, but much improved, will leave it as is and see how she goes.

will wait a few days then post some charts.

LSAT wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:19 pm

Why are you worried about those few events...How long are the events?. In 12 years I have only been below 1 about a dozen times.

oh, sorry. i had thought i'd replied to this.

i'm just trying to optimize my therapy. i've put enough time and effort and money into this that i want to see if i can get the best results that i can.

will my current ahi be the best i can get? will i go to a different machine? will tweaking my therapy work? i honestly don't know. as i've stated many times on this forum, i'm a cheap b*stard. it wouldn't be easy for me to part with more bucks if the results aren't going to be better.

if i stay with what i have and the results i have, i don't think i'll be crushingly disappointed.

so i'm trying the changes that pugsy has suggested.

maybe they will work.

who knows?

not even close to getting any "clusters" of obstructives-






but then they don't happen that often anyway. will keep it as it goes. aerophagia still not a problem. but want to give it more time before i change anything.