Power Supply battery, proper usage?

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Ruinednose
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Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by Ruinednose » Mon May 14, 2018 8:58 pm

Getting this power supply.
( I know there are specific power supplys for cpaps, but this is far more versatile at more affordable price)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BGZB9L5/re ... -AbH09YCVF

Question is, do I just plug the Cpap up the same way I plug into wall but into this power supply station?

Or do I order a 12V cord (car cigarette terminated cord)?

I don't understand electricity much or ac/dc/volts/watts/any of that.

Just want to make sure I'm doing it right.

Thanks

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CapnLoki
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by CapnLoki » Tue May 15, 2018 5:28 am

Ruinednose wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:58 pm
Getting this power supply.
( I know there are specific power supplys for cpaps, but this is far more versatile at more affordable price)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BGZB9L5/re ... -AbH09YCVF

Question is, do I just plug the Cpap up the same way I plug into wall but into this power supply station?

Or do I order a 12V cord (car cigarette terminated cord)?

I don't understand electricity much or ac/dc/volts/watts/any of that.

Just want to make sure I'm doing it right.

Thanks
The 12V cord would be much more efficient, essentially making the pack almost twice as big.

What are you planning to use the pack for? How long? humidity?

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chartle
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by chartle » Tue May 15, 2018 8:21 am

It will more efficient for it to output 12 volts DC versus you using the 110 AC outlets since it doesn't have to do do 2 power conversions.

Ruinednose
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by Ruinednose » Tue May 15, 2018 8:31 am

CapnLoki wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 5:28 am
Ruinednose wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 8:58 pm
Getting this power supply.
( I know there are specific power supplys for cpaps, but this is far more versatile at more affordable price)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BGZB9L5/re ... -AbH09YCVF

Question is, do I just plug the Cpap up the same way I plug into wall but into this power supply station?

Or do I order a 12V cord (car cigarette terminated cord)?

I don't understand electricity much or ac/dc/volts/watts/any of that.

Just want to make sure I'm doing it right.

Thanks
The 12V cord would be much more efficient, essentially making the pack almost twice as big.

What are you planning to use the pack for? How long? humidity?
Using for power outages
7 to 8hr per night, 2 nights
Humidity in lvl 5(max)

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prodigyplace
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by prodigyplace » Tue May 15, 2018 8:56 am

I beieve this would be the 12 volt cord for your machine.

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/dc-pow ... hines.html


I bought a 12Volt battery and a solar panel system to handle power outages for my CPAP machine. If you are only concerned with short term power outages, the battery would be sufficient if you have a 12 volt charger to recharge after the power returns.

Battery: https://www.harborfreight.com/12-volt-3 ... 68680.html

Solar Panel: https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt- ... 63585.html

You would also need something like this to connect your cord to the battery. https://www.amazon.com/KUNCAN-Cigarette ... 01MQPQLNM/

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CapnLoki
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by CapnLoki » Tue May 15, 2018 8:58 am

Ruinednose wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:31 am
Using for power outages
7 to 8hr per night, 2 nights
Humidity in lvl 5(max)
This device claims 200 Watt-hours, which is roughly the same as 16 Amp-hours from a 12V battery. Without humidity this will easily go two nights, maybe three or even four, depending on the pressure. However, if you use humidity, you'll have to use a low setting to go even one night. Using the inverter (the 120V plug) would easily go over the limit even at the lowest setting. I don't think the Series 50 has a heated hose, but users with the heated hose should know this uses a lot of power - sometimes even more than the humidifier.

This is a study I did several years ago:
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html#p1130596

Since this is for home backup, why not use an AGM battery where you can get twice the power for half the price?

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Ruinednose
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by Ruinednose » Tue May 15, 2018 7:23 pm

CapnLoki wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:58 am
Ruinednose wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:31 am
Using for power outages
7 to 8hr per night, 2 nights
Humidity in lvl 5(max)
This device claims 200 Watt-hours, which is roughly the same as 16 Amp-hours from a 12V battery. Without humidity this will easily go two nights, maybe three or even four, depending on the pressure. However, if you use humidity, you'll have to use a low setting to go even one night. Using the inverter (the 120V plug) would easily go over the limit even at the lowest setting. I don't think the Series 50 has a heated hose, but users with the heated hose should know this uses a lot of power - sometimes even more than the humidifier.

This is a study I did several years ago:
viewtopic/t114012/Choosing-a-Battery.html#p1130596

Since this is for home backup, why not use an AGM battery where you can get twice the power for half the price?
I don't know anything about this stuff, what's safe for the machine, what powers they can give me.

I'd love a way to comprehend all this stuff, I'm sure it's pretty elementary, it's embarrassing that I don't have a clue.

I allready bought the battery as show in the post. And I also ordered a 12v car charger for my cpap, but I don't see where I can plug the car charger into this power bank I bought... I don't understand.. Please help.

2 nights, with lvl 1 or 2 on humidifier when needed would be sufficient for me

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Jas_williams
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by Jas_williams » Wed May 16, 2018 12:05 am

You need one of these to allow you to plug in the 12v car charger


https://www.amazon.com/BiXPower-Cigaret ... le+adapter.

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GreenBean
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by GreenBean » Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am

CapnLoki probably knows the answer to this. (I've read several of the Capn's threads on battery power a cpap but I just can't retain the concepts.) I've thought about using the cpap or other electronics in my car (a Prius) using the DC outlet instead of having to recharge batteries or use a power inverter. I'm not sure of the amperage draw for my cpap or the amps on the circuit breaker for the DC outlet. Just having the DC plug and outlet would have led me to think anything could be plugged in. I haven't gotten around to finding out my Dreamstation Amps or my DC circuit breaker limit. I can use a direct connection to my battery for higher Amp appliances, but I also haven't pursued that.

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Goofproof
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by Goofproof » Wed May 16, 2018 10:15 am

GreenBean wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am
CapnLoki probably knows the answer to this. (I've read several of the Capn's threads on battery power a cpap but I just can't retain the concepts.) I've thought about using the cpap or other electronics in my car (a Prius) using the DC outlet instead of having to recharge batteries or use a power inverter. I'm not sure of the amperage draw for my cpap or the amps on the circuit breaker for the DC outlet. Just having the DC plug and outlet would have led me to think anything could be plugged in. I haven't gotten around to finding out my Dreamstation Amps or my DC circuit breaker limit. I can use a direct connection to my battery for higher Amp appliances, but I also haven't pursued that.
I'm sure Prius provided a Owners Manuel with the car. even my GMC truck came with one , you can probably download it from the internet in .pdf form. It should tell you many useful things about your car.

As for as battery for higher Amp appliances, make sure it's fused correctly for the wiring used. A XPAP current draw is way below a factory cigar lighter socket. Jim
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prodigyplace
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by prodigyplace » Wed May 16, 2018 10:47 am

GreenBean wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am
CapnLoki probably knows the answer to this. (I've read several of the Capn's threads on battery power a cpap but I just can't retain the concepts.) I've thought about using the cpap or other electronics in my car (a Prius) using the DC outlet instead of having to recharge batteries or use a power inverter. I'm not sure of the amperage draw for my cpap or the amps on the circuit breaker for the DC outlet. Just having the DC plug and outlet would have led me to think anything could be plugged in. I haven't gotten around to finding out my Dreamstation Amps or my DC circuit breaker limit. I can use a direct connection to my battery for higher Amp appliances, but I also haven't pursued that.
If you use a CPAP in the Prius, I would keep the car in READY mode so the 12 volt battery charges from the large traction battery and the engine may run occasionally to charge the large battery as needed. Many people camp with the Prius and some run the electric air conditioning too. I believe they say the engine only runs for about 5 minutes at a time to recharge the large battery.

I do not know what year of Prius you have. My 2017 Prius Liftback (the regular one) has 2 sockets, each 10 Amp (120 W) rating. I know my CPAP machine would work OK, but I do not know the specs of your machine.

EDIT: It appears that the machine in your profie draws up to 8 amps so it would work OK with this cord. https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... -cord.html

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Last edited by prodigyplace on Wed May 16, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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CapnLoki
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by CapnLoki » Wed May 16, 2018 3:42 pm

GreenBean wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:24 am
CapnLoki probably knows the answer to this. (I've read several of the Capn's threads on battery power a cpap but I just can't retain the concepts.) I've thought about using the cpap or other electronics in my car (a Prius) using the DC outlet instead of having to recharge batteries or use a power inverter. I'm not sure of the amperage draw for my cpap or the amps on the circuit breaker for the DC outlet. Just having the DC plug and outlet would have led me to think anything could be plugged in. I haven't gotten around to finding out my Dreamstation Amps or my DC circuit breaker limit. I can use a direct connection to my battery for higher Amp appliances, but I also haven't pursued that.
I don't have any first hand knowledge of the Prius so I'll leave that for others. But I still need the standard disclaimer: for "normal" cars, the starting battery should only be used for a cpap in an emergency. It is not designed for deep discharge, and repeated use will lead to an early death (for the battery, that is)! I may be wrong, but I think the Prius uses the high voltage battery for starting, and the 12V battery is for accessories.

The standard for power outlets (i.e. cigarette lighter sockets) is 10 Amps, though I've heard that some are 15 Amps. I've also seen new cars with 2 sockets list a "total of 20 Amps" for both sockets. 10 Amps seems a reasonable limit. This translates to 120 Watts. (Remember: Watts = Amps X Volts.)

There are two aspects to the "amperage draw," or load of a device. First, there is the average load, which will tell us how much a device drains the battery in the coarse of a night. Also there is the instantaneous draw, which tells us if it will blow a fuse or breaker. For a cpap pump alone, the average load is 0.4 to 1.5 Amps, depending on model and pressure. My Respironics 560 at pressure 10 draws an average of 0.5 Amps. However, the instantaneous load varies from almost zero to 1.0 or more on every breath. And when its first turned on its probably up to 2 amps or more. With large leaks it can go even higher.

Humidity and a heated hose adds a significant load - up to 4-5 Amps. If you add cold water it will have to run full tilt to bring it up to a temperature of about 170 degrees; after that it will cycle on and off as needed, according to the settings and ambient humidity.

The worst case for all these loads is somewhere around 6-7 Amps, which is why cpaps come with power supplies in the range of 90 Watts. However, if you use one though an inverter plugged into the socket and supplying the AC power supply, the low efficiency of the inverter means a load of up to 150 Watts, or 12.5 Amps, so you run the risk of popping a fuse. Remember that even if the table says a low humidifier setting only uses 1 or 2 Amps, while its heating the water its more like 4 or 5 amps.

One more thing - when a power supply lists a number like "90 Watts" that doesn't mean it always uses 90 watts, only that it can use up to 90 Watts. Its like the speedometer on a car. (I know, my Camry shows 140 MPH but its huffin' and puffin' to get to 85! But it can dream.) But the flip side of this is that the instantaneous load can easily approach (maybe even exceed) the limit briefly, even though the average over time is a lot less.

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GreenBean
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by GreenBean » Wed May 16, 2018 5:31 pm

Thank you prodigyplace and CapnLoki! You've saved me a lot of googling and trying to figure out what it all means.

prodigyplace
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Re: Power Supply battery, proper usage?

Post by prodigyplace » Wed May 16, 2018 6:19 pm

For further information on Prius and camping in one, check out www.priuschat.com They are generally a friendly, helpful bunch.

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