Can anyone recommend a battery for my Philips Respironics DreamStation?

DavidY wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Check out Paxcess 100watt power generator at Amazon. Seems reasonable if weight isn't an issue. Search on YouTube for this item with a Resmed CPAP machine. In Canada, this item is under a different brand of Uxcell.

I have the Medistrom battery pack....available for 12V too. This can be used on airplanes where weight is an issue....pricey though.

Dave

150watthours for 140$, vs 420wh for 70$.

mileena wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 2:34 pm

I sometimes sleep in my car for up to 90 days straight, and do not have electricity to power my CPAP. So I need a battery that is portable and that can be charged quickly, like at a library, gym, or while driving...

An interesting problem. Sorry about the delay - I've been busy and had to give this some thought ...

First, one thing NOT to do: Don't use the main car battery unless it is an emergency! A starting battery is not designed to take the deep discharge of a cpap. This is especially true if you use humidity and the heated hose. It may work for a few nights, but the battery will die an early death!

There are two basic approaches to this. First you could get a lightweight lithium based pack (including the various suggestions already made) and recharge it daily. There are several issues with this: most of them will only run one or two nights, and only the largest (i.e. most expensive) could handle humidity or heated hose. Second, they generally take 5 hours to charge, and they would need daily charge, so this only works if you're near a secure, 7-day accessible outlet. Also, a full charge cycle takes a toll on batteries, so doing this 90 days in a row is going to take a good chunk of the life of the battery pack. Also consider that while there seem to be a large number of lithium pack nowadays, only a few are actually designed to run a cpap, and they are the most expensive. Others are often really tablet/laptop chargers, or even jump starters the are rebranded as "solar generators"! Also, they tend to be "all-in-one" packages, requiring a particular charger and special cables. I'm not saying you can't make this work, but there are issues.

The other approach is to use a larger, traditional lead based battery. These are similar to the car starting battery, but designed as "deep cycle" so they can be deeply discharged daily and provide long life. I strongly recommend an AGM style battery which is sealed, doesn't vent gas, and can even be run upside down. These can be had in a variety of sizes, from 8 amp-hours, to 100. The size that's nice for a lot of applications is 35 amp-hours, which is a luggable 24 pounds and only costs $65. Since you're setting up a long term solution, if you can afford a bigger battery (even a 100AH, under $200) I would consider it. This would allow you to go a for a week or more without humidity, or even run a few nights with it.

The issue again becomes, how do you charge it? Since these batteries have the same chemistry as a car battery, they can use the same chargers. First, about charging- the best way to go is to deplete down to about 40-50%, and then charge up to about 85%. Thus, you'll use about a third of the battery on each cycle. That will take about 90 minutes to recharge. These numbers work regardless of the size of the battery, so if you have a larger battery, you'll spend less time charging.

One approach is to semi-permanently wire it up to the car charging system. This works while charging, but you really want to be able to disconnect when not charging. Boats traditionally used the "Big Red Switch (1-2-Both)" but lately have gone to disconnect relays and "echo charge" systems which cost around $100 and create a "set it, forget it" system. And don't rule out solar - if you have a roof rack (or can add one on) it would be possible to to put a panel on the roof that would provide considerable power. Even tying on a flexible panel (100 watts for under $200) would make a big difference - it may provide all the power you need.

If you have occasional access to an outdoor outlet, you can simply run an extension cord. This works better with a large battery (and larger charger) since you can charge it faster. For instance, if you don't use humidity, you might get 7-10 nights from a 100 AH battery, and then recharge in two hours.

I live off-grid for several months a year. My solution is "all of the above"! I use the lowest power appliances; I have large batteries; I can charge from two engines, a generator, 5 solar panels, and an extension cord! The charge sources are wired to the large house bank, and starting batteries are charged with a echocharge which acts a small slave charger. You obviously wouldn't want all of this, but some subset might be viable for you. If you need more detailed advice appropirate for your situation, send me a PM.

One other solution, camping in a Toyota Prius, is to leave the car in READY mode. The large 240V traction battery then charges the 12V battery and the engine only starts when needed to recharge the large 240V battery.
That is why I asked about what vehicle.

My apologies to all for disappearing for a few days. Just depressed is all, but that is no excuse.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 8:24 am

There are two basic approaches to this. First you could get a lightweight lithium based pack (including the various suggestions already made) and recharge it daily. There are several issues with this: most of them will only run one or two nights, and only the largest (i.e. most expensive) could handle humidity or heated hose. Second, they generally take 5 hours to charge, and they would need daily charge, so this only works if you're near a secure, 7-day accessible outlet. Also, a full charge cycle takes a toll on batteries, so doing this 90 days in a row is going to take a good chunk of the life of the battery pack. Also consider that while there seem to be a large number of lithium pack nowadays, only a few are actually designed to run a cpap, and they are the most expensive. Others are often really tablet/laptop chargers, or even jump starters the are rebranded as "solar generators"! Also, they tend to be "all-in-one" packages, requiring a particular charger and special cables. I'm not saying you can't make this work, but there are issues.

Thanks for the warning! Most CPAP batteries lithium-ion say they will run 16 hours at 10 cmH20. I use around 16 cmH20, I think. I am able to charge the battery for 5 hours every other day, or at the very least 3 hours per day since I am always in an urban area, as I do a lot of urban stealth camping and boondocking.

Also, don't cell phones use a lithim ion battery which is recharged daily? Their batteries last a few years at least.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 8:24 am

The other approach is to use a larger, traditional lead based battery. These are similar to the car starting battery, but designed as "deep cycle" so they can be deeply discharged daily and provide long life. I strongly recommend an AGM style battery which is sealed, doesn't vent gas, and can even be run upside down. These can be had in a variety of sizes, from 8 amp-hours, to 100. The size that's nice for a lot of applications is 35 amp-hours, which is a luggable 24 pounds and only costs $65. Since you're setting up a long term solution, if you can afford a bigger battery (even a 100AH, under $200) I would consider it. This would allow you to go a for a week or more without humidity, or even run a few nights with it.

The issue again becomes, how do you charge it? Since these batteries have the same chemistry as a car battery, they can use the same chargers. First, about charging- the best way to go is to deplete down to about 40-50%, and then charge up to about 85%. Thus, you'll use about a third of the battery on each cycle. That will take about 90 minutes to recharge. These numbers work regardless of the size of the battery, so if you have a larger battery, you'll spend less time charging.

One approach is to semi-permanently wire it up to the car charging system. This works while charging, but you really want to be able to disconnect when not charging. Boats traditionally used the "Big Red Switch (1-2-Both)" but lately have gone to disconnect relays and "echo charge" systems which cost around $100 and create a "set it, forget it" system. And don't rule out solar - if you have a roof rack (or can add one on) it would be possible to to put a panel on the roof that would provide considerable power. Even tying on a flexible panel (100 watts for under $200) would make a big difference - it may provide all the power you need.

The problem with a solar panel is since I urban camp, especially in California, the homeless and other criminals come out at night and would steal my solar panel, especially since I do not want to drill and lock it down. It would also add weight to my car, so less fuel efficiency. I already had a homeless druggie try to break into my car while I was in it sleeping in California. And three times in one hour one night people tried to break in to my car while sleeping in downtown Baltimore.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 8:24 am

If you have occasional access to an outdoor outlet, you can simply run an extension cord. This works better with a large battery (and larger charger) since you can charge it faster. For instance, if you don't use humidity, you might get 7-10 nights from a 100 AH battery, and then recharge in two hours.

With a power outlet, which I often have as I use my laptop for hours in a library or at a place like Panera Bread, how do you charge an AGM battery? You need a separate battery charger? I don't mind lugging an AGM battery indoors once a week.

CapnLoki wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 8:24 am

I live off-grid for several months a year. My solution is "all of the above"! I use the lowest power appliances; I have large batteries; I can charge from two engines, a generator, 5 solar panels, and an extension cord! The charge sources are wired to the large house bank, and starting batteries are charged with a echocharge which acts a small slave charger. You obviously wouldn't want all of this, but some subset might be viable for you. If you need more detailed advice appropirate for your situation, send me a PM.

You have been so nice CapnLoki! Thanks for your info. I learned so much!

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am

One other solution, camping in a Toyota Prius, is to leave the car in READY mode. The large 240V traction battery then charges the 12V battery and the engine only starts when needed to recharge the large 240V battery.
That is why I asked about what vehicle.

Got it! Now I know why you asked! I had never thought of a Prius, but I need a little more room than that. Plus, I hear when their batteries go, it can cost you a ton of money to have them replaced. Plus I heard they are underpowered and it's hard to find a charging place at night (I live in an upstairs apartment when not travelling, and park in the parking lot outdoors).

DavidY wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 7:18 pm

Check out Paxcess 100watt power generator at Amazon. Seems reasonable if weight isn't an issue. Search on YouTube for this item with a Resmed CPAP machine. In Canada, this item is under a different brand of Uxcell.

I have the Medistrom battery pack....available for 12V too. This can be used on airplanes where weight is an issue....pricey though.

Dave

I lokked up that ACOPOWER solar power generator (150W) and it is amazing! Thank you!

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N80PJVK/re ... 91338&th=1

It says it only power an electric fan for four hours. Will it have enough power to run a CPAP for 9 hours at night? Or do I need to buy two of them?

Also, it has an AC 110 V outlet, which my DreamStation uses, but I heard it is inefficient to go from a 12V battery source to AC then back to 12V for the DreamStation. Do I have to buy something like this, a 12V shielded DC adapter cord (prodigyplace also mentioned this part above):

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... -cord.html

Or, is there an adapter for this plug for my cord on my DremStation (pictured below ) that would plug into that ACOPOWER dfevice above in my first link?

palerider wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 6:50 pm

mileena wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 2:34 pm

I sometimes sleep in my car for up to 90 days straight, and do not have electricity to power my CPAP. So I need a battery that is portable and that can be charged quickly, like at a library, gym, or while driving. I have a Philips Respironics DreamStation Auto CPAP Hum DOM. It uses 12 V.

Would this work:

https://www.cpapdirect.com/parts-and-ac ... attery-kit

coupled with this cord:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... cord.html

Is there a cheaper battery? Can I just shop for any CPAP lithium-ion battery? Will they all work?

Thanks!

Since you're using it in your vehicle, weight isn't the issue. Weight is the only reason to spend the extra money on LiIon.

The most cost effective thing you can do is get a 35ah scooter battery. rig up a charging cable from the cigarette lighter to that battery, and use it to power the cpap. That way you *can't* over-discharge the vehicle battery, and will be able to start it the next morning... then just let the battery charge while you're running the vehicle.

Thank you. The problem is weight would become an issue if I had to carry it somewhere to plug it in to recharge it. Plus, the extra weight would decrease my car's fuel efficiency.

The problem with my car, being a 2018 model, it shuts off things like my radio after 15 minutes, or the vanity mirror visor light in 5 minutes to save battery power. It is crazy! And you have to have the car on to use the 12V cigarette lighter outlet I think.

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 3:36 pm

mileena wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 2:47 pm

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 2:39 pm

What type of car do you have? Perhaps you could plug in to the car and have the battery recharge when the car is driven, especially if you can do without a heated hose or humidifier.

Depending on your situation, I have a solar panel system and an AGM battery from Harbor Freight along with the vendor DC converter from our sponsor that would be less expensive than what you have shown.

Ok, I see you updated your post.

I have a regular minivan. The solar would be nice, but I hate the idea of altering my van since I may trade it in a few years. But I like the idea of having that kind of power.

The solar panel I got is free standing, https://www.harborfreight.com/100-watt- ... 63585.html

Here is the battery I got. https://www.harborfreight.com/12-Volt-3 ... 68680.html

It looks like you would need this for your machine: https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... -cord.html

and something like this https://www.amazon.com/KUNCAN-Cigarette ... 01MQPQLNM/

Those links helped a lot! I never knew solar panels were so inexpensive. The only problem, as I mentioned earlier to CapnLoki above, would be that people would steal my solar panel, especially since I do not want to drill holes to lock it own, since it would effect the car's resale value. Plus, it would be easy to steal, since it is on the roof of a lower minivan, so you would even need a ladder. They are more secure on top of an RV.

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am

One other solution, camping in a Toyota Prius, is to leave the car in READY mode. The large 240V traction battery then charges the 12V battery and the engine only starts when needed to recharge the large 240V battery.
That is why I asked about what vehicle.

Got it! Now I know why you asked! I had never thought of a Prius, but I need a little more room than that. Plus, I hear when their batteries go, it can cost you a ton of money to have them replaced. Plus I heard they are underpowered and it's hard to find a charging place at night (I live in an upstairs apartment when not travelling, and park in the parking lot outdoors).

Most of the Prius models (except the older Plugin & the current Prime) do not plug in. They are parallel Hybrids. There is a motor run off the large battery that is used to move the car. That motor also recovers some of the energy during braking to recharge the battery. The gas engine supplements for driving at higher speeds and it recharges the large battery. My 2017 Prius is rated at an EPA combined 52 mpg and I regularly get 55 - 60 mpg except during winter.

The large battery seems to last about 125K + miles. Some get over 200K. A new dealer installed battery is currently about $3000 with a 3 year warranty. There are less expensive third party options. The best DIY option,in my opinion, is a kit of new cells for $1600 shipped. There are other much less expensive options depending on your risk of getting stranded.

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 2:22 pm

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:41 pm

prodigyplace wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 9:59 am

One other solution, camping in a Toyota Prius, is to leave the car in READY mode. The large 240V traction battery then charges the 12V battery and the engine only starts when needed to recharge the large 240V battery.
That is why I asked about what vehicle.

Got it! Now I know why you asked! I had never thought of a Prius, but I need a little more room than that. Plus, I hear when their batteries go, it can cost you a ton of money to have them replaced. Plus I heard they are underpowered and it's hard to find a charging place at night (I live in an upstairs apartment when not travelling, and park in the parking lot outdoors).

Most of the Prius models (except the older Plugin & the current Prime) do not plug in. They are parallel Hybrids. There is a motor run off the large battery that is used to move the car. That motor also recovers some of the energy during braking to recharge the battery. The gas engine supplements for driving at higher speeds and it recharges the large battery. My 2017 Prius is rated at an EPA combined 52 mpg and I regularly get 55 - 60 mpg except during winter.

The large battery seems to last about 125K + miles. Some get over 200K. A new dealer installed battery is currently about $3000 with a 3 year warranty. There are less expensive third party options. The best DIY option,in my opinion, is a kit of new cells for $1600 shipped. There are other much less expensive options depending on your risk of getting stranded.

Wow! I am so jealous. A Prius sounds like a nice car then. I know where I am, in the Bay Area of California, there are tons of Priuses (Prii??).

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:36 pm

Also, don't cell phones use a lithim ion battery which is recharged daily? Their batteries last a few years at least.

Well, two years is a stretch for a lot of folks, and cell phones are notorious for losing power over time. Also, cell phones use Lithium Polymer, a special version of Lithium Ion. Each cell is is slightly different - and you can be sure that the cheapest pack will have the shortest life! 500 cycles is commonly advertised as a "life" for these packs. Tesla, however, is trying to build for 8-10 years of daily charging! This is the ultimate YMMV!

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:36 pm

The problem with a solar panel is since I urban camp, especially in California, the homeless and other criminals come out at night and would steal my solar panel, especially since I do not want to drill and lock it down. It would also add weight to my car, so less fuel efficiency. I already had a homeless druggie try to break into my car while I was in it sleeping in California. And three times in one hour one night people tried to break in to my car while sleeping in downtown Baltimore.

To make it worse, in urban areas you'll often be shaded my buildings. On the other hand, flexible panels can be tied on and removed easily.

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:36 pm

With a power outlet, which I often have as I use my laptop for hours in a library or at a place like Panera Bread, how do you charge an AGM battery? You need a separate battery charger? I don't mind lugging an AGM battery indoors once a week.

AGM's use the same chargers as car batteries, so there are a lot of inexpensive options. I like the BatteryTender trickle chargers because they are very gentle and reliable, but the largest is only 5 Amps. You want a charger that puts out at least a quarter of the size of battery - i.e. a 40 Amp-hour battery would like about 10 Amps when charging. The 35 AH batteries are a luggable 25 pounds, I like the 50% to 85% charging protocol, but it can be pushed to 20% to 90% at the cost of lifetime and charge time. This might mean something like 3 hours charging once a week, total life reduced from about 1000 cycles to 500 -still not bad for a $65 battery. Also, you can get a second battery and rotate as needed.

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:36 pm

You have been so nice CapnLoki! Thanks for your info. I learned so much!

We're all still learning!

More Prius information is available at www.priuschat.com Several there have camped in their Prius.

mileena wrote: ↑

Wed May 16, 2018 1:57 pm

Thank you. The problem is weight would become an issue if I had to carry it somewhere to plug it in to recharge it. Plus, the extra weight would decrease my car's fuel efficiency.

25lbs is gonna mess up your fuel economy that much?

I love our Prius--except when trapped on a narrow road
behind clueless/selfish/deaf bicyclists.

mileena wrote: ↑

Fri May 11, 2018 2:34 pm

I sometimes sleep in my car for up to 90 days straight, and do not have electricity to power my CPAP. So I need a battery that is portable and that can be charged quickly, like at a library, gym, or while driving. I have a Philips Respironics DreamStation Auto CPAP Hum DOM. It uses 12 V.

Would this work:

https://www.cpapdirect.com/parts-and-ac ... attery-kit

coupled with this cord:

https://www.cpap.com/productpage/pr-dre ... cord.html

I use the same battery for my ResMed machine. If you look up the battery on cpap.com, it shows you exactly what cord/adapter you need to hook it up to your cpap. I use mine for camping, and recharge each day at the electrical outlet in the bathroom - it takes 3 to 4 hours to recharge after 8 hours of use.