Still not feeling rested. Now having insomnia.

I've hit the four year mark. I've used this machine faithfully every single night. I'm still exhausted every day. I usually can barely keep my eyes open by 8 or 9 pm. I'm usually too drowsy to drive late at night.

Well, twice now, a couple weeks apart, for the first time in my life, I suddenly have been completely unable to fall asleep. This has happened both times on a night before I work. As I write this, I've been laying here tossing and turning four hours. Every time I get right to the point of sleep, I pop back awake.

I'm 38. I've never experienced insomnia. I tried a melatonin tonight around 3am. Didn't seem to help. I didn't have an abnormal amount of caffeine today. No amount of caffeine typically does anything for my drowsiness.

The ONLY thing I can think of is that both today and last time this happened, I was off the day before and somehow didn't get up until 11am. I'd wake periodically in the morning and be too exhausted to get up and I'd fall back asleep.

I feel miserable despite an ahi of 0.5 to 1.

You say the ONLY thing (about your change in sleep pattern) as if it doesn't count... but it does! Your internal clock just behaved accordingly, telling you you'd had enough sleep for the time period and didn't need more until later than usual those nights. Come back after a few nights of regular sleep time and let us know how it's going. And try to lay off the melatonin - don't force your system to be erratic (as it will see things). You may have 1-2 more nights of disruption but if you stick to your more normal schedule, whether or not you fall asleep quickly, you should return to a normal schedule. IF not, then ask for more help. HOWever... the fact you've otherwise not felt rested (pre sleep pattern change) is not good. Have you used Sleepyhead to see what might be the problem?

If e.g. your min. pressure setting is too low to treat you adequately, you may need to raise it... see what the software says (post here for help interpreting if necessary... AHI isn't everything).

i have no advice to give, i'm sorry to say. what i want to do here is get this conversation bumped back to the top. also, to point out this-

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=166774&p=1234598#p1234598

in this post of yours from march 15, seems like the conversation sort of petered out. maybe if the experts here read it again, someone will have some advice!

I too have trouble falling asleep and waking up every hour dispite being burned out and exhausted all of the time ... I get maybe 5 hours max in a night waking up still every hour or two ... My AHI is under 1 now having switched to ASV a few weeks back .. Before treatment I was sleeping 2 to 3 hours a night for years, too scared to sleep due to the attacks and apnea, waking up in panic unable to catch my breath, heart racing thinking I would die that very moment ... I no longer have this while using the machine but still my body isn't letting me sleep a solid night ... There must be part of me that still is afraid of sleeping having experienced the terror for so long untreated ...

I think that prior to treatment, you were so exhausted that you could fall asleep anywhere. Now, you're batter rested and need to fall asleep when you're tired and at your "usual" bedtime. Thus, any change that may not have been an issue before might be one now. Try keeping your bedtime as regular as possible.

Awake and it's 3am ... in between one of my wake ups right now ... I won't be able to go back to sleep anytime soon, so very frustrating...

Thank you all for reading. Sometimes I just need to vent. I'm very tempted to quit using my machine after 4 years of using it faithfully any time I sleep; even naps.


I forgot all about my last post.

Ok, so after those two Thursday nights two weeks apart with insomnia, I'm back to my norm being drowsy all day and barely able to keep my eyes open after 8pm usually. I'm also moody, tearful and irritable frequently.

I rarely sleep on my back because that makes my mask leak. I have to keep my face pressed into a pillow on one side. This has always been the case no matter which mask. If I tighten the mask it is unbearably painful after 30 mins to 2 hrs depending on how tight.

My pressures were 16/12 and are now 14/10 BiPAP. My AHI is 0.5 to 1. The only problems on sleepyhead were mask leaks, but I don't see many leaks now. Pressures were lowered because I complained of my ribs and back aching and feeling overinflated and my mask having to be painfully tight to not leak.

Switched masks to a Simplus from an airfit F20 due to unbearable pain from the headgear after wearing a couple hours. Simplus is much more comfortable, but not perfect. I used to use a Quattro Air.


I felt more rested before seeking treatment.
My wife was just put on CPAP. She says she feels more alert now. It's frustrating that I don't.

Is there software that gives more useful data than sleepyhead? I wish I could give a 1 - 5 star rating for how rested I feel to go with the data.

BTS wrote: ↑

Fri May 04, 2018 2:03 pm

...too scared to sleep due to the attacks and apnea, waking up in panic unable to catch my breath, heart racing thinking I would die that very moment...

That's awful, and I'm sorry you experienced that. I've never felt anything off the sort. Before treatment I slept solidly the entire night. I never woke in the middle of sleep. Ever since starting treatment I wake frequently and toss and turn. It feels like every hour.

yourbrokenoven wrote: ↑

Sat May 12, 2018 12:05 am

BTS wrote: ↑

Fri May 04, 2018 2:03 pm

...too scared to sleep due to the attacks and apnea, waking up in panic unable to catch my breath, heart racing thinking I would die that very moment...

That's awful, and I'm sorry you experienced that. I've never felt anything off the sort. Before treatment I slept solidly the entire night. I never woke in the middle of sleep. Ever since starting treatment I wake frequently and toss and turn. It feels like every hour.

Thanks ... It actually keeps me on a strict schedule of using the machine every single time I sleep, let it be a day time nap to sleeping at night ... If I don't use my machine I will experience the horrors I use to pre xPAP..

It is taking its sweet time but I am now getting better sleeping longer stretches of time, finally I think my brain is telling me it's safe now with the mask and machine working overdrive treating me the way it should... Killing all those nasty events ... Looking forward to a night of it not waking me up continuously every hour, now every couple of hours ... and more than 5 hours straight.. It will come ... I keep telling myself .. It will come!

I need this machine covered by insurance, it is a life saver and the compliance right now is at 79%, I should be getting better than that, so if I keep at it for 2 more weeks I can make it work... It's been stressful having that watchful eye on me and it's just that some nights I won't have a blink of sleep, more so resting due to that old fear ...

The blower isn't always effective for me ,shallow breathing might still be possible and mask leaks aren't as rare as we would like .Seems to me like insomnia is sometimes a result of an adrenaline or anxiety spike caused by the apnea process getting the better of the situation read somewhere that you become impulsive and fraught as brain chemicals imbalance after a while and send a distress signal to the body and then whatever you do you just cant overcome them and get your head down no matter how little sleep you have had .Its probably a primal response and a survival instinct we have simply outgrown as a species We are not likely to get eaten we don't need this flood of chemicals but i think it happens.I started my road to discovering apnea with a total melt down a cycle of apnea and insomnia that lasted two months ,it led me to an asylum where they had no idea what was wrong with me and said i was psychotic .
Apnea and insomnia is i would say the worst thing possible and if the cycle isn't broken you would either die or simply go insane and your body well its not clever

As it turns out im not psychotic I do though regularly get insomnia and i struggle with my mask during my incarceration in an English asylum I went on a hunger strike as i felt i was being kept there for no valid reason and lost a lot of weight i then adopted a lucky sleep position on my side out of sheer superstition and modesty .
The weight loss and the lucky position probably saved my life not the idiots who gave me what was effectively a sedative .Those anti psychotics almost killed me and probably would of if not for losing weight etc

I read an article not long ago entitled apnea and insomnia a new syndrome
Its amazing that they think that its new and not as old as time- probably some dinosaur sometime had it
but ..it does describe just how painful these two illnesses are conditions can co relate to each other to screw with both mind and body
If anyone shares this mix please get in contact with me id love to share notes .

I know well what you are describing. Since childhood my mind has raced throughout the night when everyone else was soundly asleep. I feared going to bed because I knew I was not going to sleep and equally feared that once I was asleep I would not wake up in time to get to school. As I became older I had the same problem, and fears. Studying all night was not a problem and not terribly out of place among teens and college students. My insomnia never abated though, and throughout the years of having a high pressured job I attributed the insomnia to the pressures and worries of the job keeping me from sleeping. Retirement did not help my inability to go to sleep at socially acceptable times. I have been chronically sleep deprived my entire life, exacerbated by OSA during the few hours I did sleep. As part of my workup for OSA I did answer a thorough questionnaire. (My sleep study was even done during the day because I wouldn't have been alseep if they tried to do it at night.) I have been diagnosed with advanced sleep phase disorder; my circadian rhythm is out of sync with society. The Wikipedia entry sounds much like my sleep doctor's explanation and fits me to a "T". Learning that hasn't helped my sleep pattern at all, but it has helped me feel less like a societal freak. I hope that you do not have the same problem because there is little that can be done to change, though behavioral modification may make modest changes if strictly adhered to. (Not the sleep hygiene rules which I have followed for 30 years to no effect.) My sleep doctor said research may some day find a chromosomal explanation.

Back to your OSA and "insomnia". Yes, the combination can lead to near insanity and great depressions. Body and mind are taken to the precipice for sure. The sleep deprivation becomes unbearable and there is no way to actually catch up by sleeping late on weekends or something like that. Sleep cannot be stored up like a battery. A "good night's rest" can work for those who have a few periods of sleep deprivation but I was never able to "catch up". Not knowing my circadian rhythm issue made it all the worse for me because I did believe that I was a neurotic borderline, worthless, lazy, head case. The fear of not being able to sleep was as debilitating as not being able to sleep, though of course I eventually learned that it was a reality that I couldn't sleep at "normal" hours. If I absolutely have to meet a morning commitment now in retirement I will often stay awake for 36 hours to avoid the fear of oversleeping the appointment.

There are two scientifically validated circadian rhythm questionnaire tests in use for many years. If you go to a sleep doctor you will be given one of them. (I've also seen them online.) If circadian rhythm is ruled out, then maybe you can try some prescription insomnia sleep meds. There are several, some which work better if the problem is falling asleep, some for those who can fall asleep but then awaken. If you can get cpap working for you even if only for the few hours you can get to sleep, it will help whether the insomnia is circadian rhythm issue or not.

I am so sorry that you have been going through this and hope that you will achieve some improvement in both the OSA and insomnia.

My sleep specialist was going to put me on Provigil or Nuvigil a year ago.

I was starting to get desperate with the insomnia thing compounded with my normal problem of never feeling rested.

I'm happy to report I haven't had any more insomnia, though, I'm back to being drowsy all day and barely able to keep awake in the evenings, and very emotional and irritable because of what feels like lack of sleep even on nights I sleep eight hours with very good AHI.

I'm really tempted to go without my BiPAP one night to see if I sleep better. I never had the horrible symptoms many have reported. I miss how well I used to sleep.

Again. Can't fall asleep tonight. Only thing in common is I felt decently rested this morning. Didn't feel tired at all throughout the day, and I feel like I'm having palpitations, which usually don't keep me awake.

At least I'm off today. Guess it's time for a sleep specialist follow-up.